Kuzan's Destruction of CP9/'Capture' of Nico Robin

[sabret00the]

Ok background on my theoretical madness here: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?p=202069

Ok here's my theory, we know that Spandam's intentions aren't exactly in the best interests of the world. We know that Aokiji's appearance at (forget the name of the island) inspired the Mugiwara to ask questions of themselves and their abilities.

Could it have been a test? could this have all been a plan by Aokiji?

We have to assume that in his time, he's witnessed the events surrounding Robin, especially from the goverment side, the bounty for false reasons, and the way she's moved from crew to crew. We also know that Kuzan heard Saul's last words and that while not being her ally hasn't exactly demonstrated his position as an enemy either. We know he knows of her abilities and so thus far hasn't allowed her to stray to evil and yet has still kept her out of government hands.

I lack evidence on him being behind the Aqua Laguna at this moment in time, but the second i find it i will resurrect this thread.

I feel that Aokiji feels he's killing two birds with one stone on this one; bringing CP9 back in line with the ideals of the WG and putting Nico Robin in safe and 'good' (as in kind hearted) hands.

Any takers on this theory?

[Akkiosoregan]

I think you might be onto something but I see it slightly differently. I think that Ao Kiji is dissatisfied with how the WG is running things (ex. Robin's bounty for her knowledge, the destruction of the evac ship in the flashback) but he doesn't want to directly revolt and put himself in the WG sights. He is probably subtly helping robin to where she needs to be.

I also believe that the buster call he gave Spandam is a fake to possibly make them overconfident. I don't think Ao Kiji, who comes off as a smart guy, would put the big red button in the hands of a lunatic like spandam.

[Zeefer]

Originally Posted by sabret00the

I feel that Aokiji feels he's killing two birds with one stone on this one; bringing CP9 back in line with the ideals of the WG and putting Nico Robin in safe and 'good' (as in kind hearted) hands.

Any takers on this theory?

How can Aokiji bring CP9 back in line with the ideals of the WG (that is, if they ever existed), when they were never in line in the first place? The CP9 since its inception has always been a secret organization whose sole purpose is to carry out assassinations

[sabret00the]

Originally Posted by Zeefer

How can Aokiji bring CP9 back in line with the ideals of the WG (that is, if they ever existed), when they were never in line in the first place? The CP9 since its inception has always been a secret organization whose sole purpose is to carry out assassinations

they infiltrate and neutralise based on the wishes/ideals of the world government, however in this case, they're acting on wishes/ideals of spandam. spandam who's trying to take over the world.

[GoAnderson]

Could be. Kiji isn't the sort to rebel outright, but we've seen he, like Smoker, has his own ideas of justice by letting Robin go. It would make some sense that he would push her along the way, but he did say that if she strayed, he would become her first enemy.

... On that note, he also said at Longring Longland that he was NOT there to take her in. He was willing to kill her after she attacked him, but it could be that he was prompting the Strawhats to protect her, and maybe something would click (it didn't).

What most intrigues me about Spandam's Buster Call is the possibility that, when the button is pressed, something Oda-scale will happen -- not the Buster Call. I can't wait to see his face contorted in some sort of ungodly suffering.

[Black Mamba]

Originally Posted by Akkiosoregan

I also believe that the buster call he gave Spandam is a fake to possibly make them overconfident. I don't think Ao Kiji, who comes off as a smart guy, would put the big red button in the hands of a lunatic like spandam.

That is most likely true. I can only imagine Spandam, surrounded by Strawhats, trying to activate the Buster Call only to find out it's fake......

And it hadn't really made sense to me why Ao Kiji would let Spandam use the Buster Call on a WG establishment. This theroy would explain why he was able to trust Spandam to only use it to blackmail Robin into cooperation.....

[Ubiq]

Originally Posted by GoAnderson

What most intrigues me about Spandam's Buster Call is the possibility that, when the button is pressed, something Oda-scale will happen -- not the Buster Call. I can't wait to see his face contorted in some sort of ungodly suffering.

That's a distinct possibility; you'd think that if any Admiral would give Spandam a Golden Phone Snail, it'd be Akainu rather than Aokiji.

Maybe it'll connect him with the cafeteria of Naval Base G2 instead.

[Voodzik]

Originally Posted by sabret00the

Ok background on my theoretical madness here: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?p=202069

Ok here's my theory, we know that Spandam's intentions aren't exactly in the best interests of the world. We know that Aokiji's appearance at (forget the name of the island) inspired the Mugiwara to ask questions of themselves and their abilities.

Could it have been a test? could this have all been a plan by Aokiji?

We have to assume that in his time, he's witnessed the events surrounding Robin, especially from the goverment side, the bounty for false reasons, and the way she's moved from crew to crew. We also know that Kuzan heard Saul's last words and that while not being her ally hasn't exactly demonstrated his position as an enemy either. We know he knows of her abilities and so thus far hasn't allowed her to stray to evil and yet has still kept her out of government hands.

I lack evidence on him being behind the Aqua Laguna at this moment in time, but the second i find it i will resurrect this thread.

I feel that Aokiji feels he's killing two birds with one stone on this one; bringing CP9 back in line with the ideals of the WG and putting Nico Robin in safe and 'good' (as in kind hearted) hands.

Any takers on this theory?

sabret00the, you've given me the courage to put forward my own crazy theory. Let me say first that your strikes me as very possible and likely.

This is just a theory, but it occured to me that it was possible some time ago that Ao Kiji plans on going into open revolt against the WG. Bear with me now...
1: Unless it's a fake, Ao Kiji has given the power of the buster call to a man he knows to be stark raving insane (and the spitting image of his father, to boot) on a WG installation.
2: Ao Kiji is already known for his constant jaunts without orders and ignoring orders from the Five Elder Stars (they're complaining about that in chapter...304? I think 304. I could be totally off. whatever.)
3: He's had some bad experiences, and from the flashback he seems to have been dissoulusioned greatly by the WG even long ago.

My theory is that he's priming the Straw Hats as a weapon. He went to Long Ring Longland to test their strength and see if they were tough enough to be his secret silver bullet, and they passed. If i'm right, he may also be working with other powerful-but-honorable pirate crews (like Shanks, and Whitebeard and the like) to organize some larger act of rebellion, while at the same time directing the straw Hats into a position where they've no choice to but to fight the WG. Ao Kiji could even be behind the Pirates Summit.

This is all just random speculation, but it's a theory i had.

[Robin Stjernberg]

Maybe Kiji is wanting Enies Loby to get burned down by Busters Call?

[joekido the Second]

Originally Posted by Robin Stjernberg

Maybe Kiji is wanting Enies Loby to get burned down by Busters Call?

Aokiji and the BC people are not stupid, why would they burn Enies Lobby down? Why would Aokiji do that which can risk his rank and his job?

[Akkiosoregan]

Even if the buster call is real I don't think Ao Kiji would be blamed if Spandam did something stupid with it. Also it's possible that someone above Ao Kiji ordered him to give spandam access to the BC.

If it is real and he did activate it in Enies lobby I think the commanders of the fleet would probably have enough of a brain to either ignore the order since it's WG property or to request a target confirmation from a higher authority.

[Robin Stjernberg]

That would work exactly as everyone else's theory in this thread. Basiclly, whatever the BC do can risk Kiji's job, or whatever he do also.
I doubt the Gourosei would want EL to burn, or the BC people for that sake. But maybe Kiji understood that Luffy and his gang would find out a way to take over EL, and letting a bunch of beginner pirates controlling one of the WG front main bases would certainly be a very bad thing. I think they would rather destroy it than let that happen. Kiji probably know the ways of the Gorusei, so he would know how they would act.

[blacky]

Originally Posted by Robin Stjernberg

That would work exactly as everyone else's theory in this thread. Basiclly, whatever the BC do can risk Kiji's job, or whatever he do also.
I doubt the Gourosei would want EL to burn, or the BC people for that sake. But maybe Kiji understood that Luffy and his gang would find out a way to take over EL, and letting a bunch of beginner pirates controlling one of the WG front main bases would certainly be a very bad thing. I think they would rather destroy it than let that happen. Kiji probably know the ways of the Gorusei, so he would know how they would act.

Nah, it's pretty useless to burn Enies Lobby down. Enies Lobby is like the first or even last line of defense, directly in front of the World Government, so if they burn down their largest barrier because of some supposedly-weak Pirates, they'd more or less open the gates for all the stronger pirates that are out there and invite them to a worldwide party of slaughter and chaos - And we know that there must be a lot of people who are still significantly stronger than Luffy and his Crew are right now.

If they call out Buster Call the Battleships can't even shoot with their cannons, as Enies Lobby should be protected by large walls, so that noone could directly aim on the Strawhats (assuming that it's possible to be that accurate in the first place). So if they want to use cannons, they'd have to burn the whole Island to crisp again.

But it is much more likely that the Marines from the 10 battleships enter Enies Lobby - with the 5 Vice Admirals ahead of them - and begin a direct fight with the Strawhats. After all the target is not an entire Island, but just a small crew of a few dozend Pirates and most likely it would even be enough to kill Luffy alone, to end the whole mess.

And if we keep in mind that out of the 5 Vice Admirals that were part of the previous Buster Call at least (!) 2 got the Rank of a Marine Headquarters Supreme Admiral and that one of them was even strong enough to defeat all the strawhats in an instant, then the combat-strength is quite significant even without Cannons.

[Robin Stjernberg]

I am not saying they would burn that big door down. It wouldn't make much matter if they would burn the EL down, because it's already destroyed. But, what they would lose a lot of trust in a lot of people if they would let some pirates rule their base. And as you said, probably pretty weak ones too.
But yeah, they could also just call in all the people from BC, as, they most likely is a lot stronger than the guys at EL. :)

[Ivotas]

This topic isn´t that whack as it seems at the first sight. I don´t have much own view to contribute besides the that I think that Robin´s question "Why did Aokiji give you the authority to make a Buster Call...?" from chapter 382 does in fact have a deeper meaning. Especially with seeing now what Kiji´s history with the Buster Call is (witnessing radical tactics by Sakazuki with which he didn´t approve), it is an even more interesting question as to why he felt necessary to give Spandam the authority to use such a devastating thing.

However I doubt that Kiji had anything about Enies Lobby in his mind. He couldn´t have known that the situation would go that far. For all he knew he could have assumed that maybe everything would take place at Water 7.

[sabret00the]

Originally Posted by Voodzik

sabret00the, you've given me the courage to put forward my own crazy theory. Let me say first that your strikes me as very possible and likely.

This is just a theory, but it occured to me that it was possible some time ago that Ao Kiji plans on going into open revolt against the WG. Bear with me now...
1: Unless it's a fake, Ao Kiji has given the power of the buster call to a man he knows to be stark raving insane (and the spitting image of his father, to boot) on a WG installation.
2: Ao Kiji is already known for his constant jaunts without orders and ignoring orders from the Five Elder Stars (they're complaining about that in chapter...304? I think 304. I could be totally off. whatever.)
3: He's had some bad experiences, and from the flashback he seems to have been dissoulusioned greatly by the WG even long ago.

My theory is that he's priming the Straw Hats as a weapon. He went to Long Ring Longland to test their strength and see if they were tough enough to be his secret silver bullet, and they passed. If i'm right, he may also be working with other powerful-but-honorable pirate crews (like Shanks, and Whitebeard and the like) to organize some larger act of rebellion, while at the same time directing the straw Hats into a position where they've no choice to but to fight the WG. Ao Kiji could even be behind the Pirates Summit.

This is all just random speculation, but it's a theory i had.

thanks.

as for your theory, theres a major IF in there. it comes down to how the buster call works, if the buster call is a homing beacon then your theory is possible, however if it's more of a walkie talkie then your theory can't work as it means Spandam can direct it anywhere. thus far i have the feeling of Aokiji that he's all about Justice, he chose the most nobel career and likes to be able to "puff his chest out" to use Oda's own words. While i think he'll oppose the government on certain things, i don't think he'd ever try and endanger the existence of the WG.

Also if this special Aqua Laguna was designed to keep the actions of the Mugiwara and CP9 on Water7 then these actions (this battle) can't have been designed to do anything bar topple CP9 and it's questionable objectives under the leadership of Spandam.

thanks for sharing your theory, it's much appreciated.

[yunachan91]

Originally Posted by sabret00the

Ok background on my theoretical madness here: http://apforums.net/showthread.php?p=202069

Ok here's my theory, we know that Spandam's intentions aren't exactly in the best interests of the world. We know that Aokiji's appearance at (forget the name of the island) inspired the Mugiwara to ask questions of themselves and their abilities.

Could it have been a test? could this have all been a plan by Aokiji?

We have to assume that in his time, he's witnessed the events surrounding Robin, especially from the goverment side, the bounty for false reasons, and the way she's moved from crew to crew. We also know that Kuzan heard Saul's last words and that while not being her ally hasn't exactly demonstrated his position as an enemy either. We know he knows of her abilities and so thus far hasn't allowed her to stray to evil and yet has still kept her out of government hands.

I lack evidence on him being behind the Aqua Laguna at this moment in time, but the second i find it i will resurrect this thread.

I feel that Aokiji feels he's killing two birds with one stone on this one; bringing CP9 back in line with the ideals of the WG and putting Nico Robin in safe and 'good' (as in kind hearted) hands.

Any takers on this theory?

I agree with most of this... But I don't think that Aokiji is behind the Aqua Laguna. I mean, he has the power of ice, to freeze something or the like. So, how should he did that?! If there is someone behind it, then someone with a demon fruit with the power of storm or water or something like this....

And some of you think that he planned that strawhats fight against CP9 or something like that... I disagree with this. He didn't know that the strawhats were traveling to Water 7 until the end of the fight on the island, when he was riding on his bycicle.
But the thing I agree with is that Aokiji wanted to "test" the strawhats, if they are really nakamas of robin, who will always protect her. So, like sauro said she will find people like this.

[sabret00the]

Originally Posted by yunachan91

I agree with most of this... But I don't think that Aokiji is behind the Aqua Laguna. I mean, he has the power of ice, to freeze something or the like. So, how should he did that?! If there is someone behind it, then someone with a demon fruit with the power of storm or water or something like this....

And some of you think that he planned that strawhats fight against CP9 or something like that... I disagree with this. He didn't know that the strawhats were traveling to Water 7 until the end of the fight on the island, when he was riding on his bycicle.
But the thing I agree with is that Aokiji wanted to "test" the strawhats, if they are really nakamas of robin, who will always protect her. So, like sauro said she will find people like this.

Well we know that he told CP9 that Robin was on her way to water7 so theres the evidence as to planning the fight, i'm assuming he knew how she'd react and that if they were her real nakama then they'd do everything in theor power to get her back.

As for the Aqua Laguna thing, you have to consider the effects of global warming and such, what happens if you lower the temperature considerably during a storm? the storm get's angrier, it's very very possible.

[Ivotas]

Originally Posted by sabret00the

As for the Aqua Laguna thing, you have to consider the effects of global warming and such, what happens if you lower the temperature considerably during a storm? the storm get's angrier, it's very very possible.

I´m sorry but that is totally far off. Even if it biologically makes sense it is completely whack as a plot element.

[Voodzik]

Originally Posted by Ivotas

I´m sorry but that is totally far off. Even if it biologically makes sense it is completely whack as a plot element.

Metorologically, not biologically. Metorology is the study of weather, biology is the study of life.

And that said is it really so weird? Nami's whole fighting style is using metorology to her advantage, changing the state of the atmosphere to create attacks. Would it really be so wierd for someone to use a similar technique?