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Thread: American Politics: We're in for it now

  1. #3841
    Someone call for Zeidoktor sgamer82's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Going back to mentions of the Deep State earlier, the other forum I participate in had someone give what struck me as a pretty good description of what the Deep State theory is:

    Incidentally, I'd argue part of the whole "Deep State" narrative is to defuse what would otherwise be a Logic Bomb for conspiracy theorists who support him. Namely, the fact that 'their own guy' is now in a position of very considerable power and basically in the same position they'd normally reserve for the Big Bad of their narratives.
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  2. #3842

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now


  3. #3843

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Wouldn't long term serving generals/marines and CEO's of big arms and weapons entrepresies have a little bit of leverage over whats going on in the country, as well as strong opposition leaders like nanci pelosi, wouldn't that really count as deep state as in leverage but without any conspiracy?

    Edit: Also would you say that the American agencies are always under full control of the current president?

    I'm obviously not talking any secret agenda behind their back lol, or any james bond conspiracy, merely pondering if for example the standing president Issues a request or order that doesn't align with that agency, or if the agency is currently in the midst of an operation that the president doesn't see fit, ( insert snowden example here), how much power does he have over them?
    Last edited by Luca; September 16th, 2020 at 11:35 PM.

  4. #3844

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Luca View Post
    There is no conspirary just talks about world economy, not sure why i highlighted it.
    There was a "steady state" made up of government officials who tried to keep Trump from enacting his crazier and more damaging impulses like assassinating Assad (something he recently admitted to requesting).
    That's the basis for the deep state claim but he weeded them all out over a year ago.
    Nowadays he just uses it as an excuse for why he's entitled to a third term.

  5. #3845
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Luca View Post
    Wouldn't long term serving generals/marines and CEO's of big arms and weapons entrepresies have a little bit of leverage over whats going on in the country, as well as strong opposition leaders like nanci pelosi, wouldn't that really count as deep state as in leverage but without any conspiracy?
    The high-ranking members of the Pentagon are in charge of the military, but above them the Secretary of Defense and President are the ones who have the ultimate control and authorization, and the President is the one who appoints the Secretary of Defense. Specifically the Constitution names the president as the Commander-in-Chief of the US Armed Forces, even if he doesn't do any actual fighting. And Trump being the narcissist that he is would never listen to any advice the Generals/Admirals give him concerning any defense issues if it hurts his ego or doesn't align with his own selfish ambitions.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizational_structure_of_the_United_States_Depa rtment_of_Defense

    And CEOs of private arms/weapon enterprises aren't supposed to have ANY leverage over the military, because they are not part of the government. Their main goal is to make weapons and sell them for money, not tell the army where to use them.

    Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House does have a certain amount of control and influence in Congress, but it's not Deep State because that's how Congress is supposed to work, as anybody who actually paid attention in US History/Government would know. A Speaker can only do so much, especially when the president isn't willing to work with them at all.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speake...epresentatives

  6. #3846
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    It's so boring, isn't it?

    Stuff like the Illuminati or Freemasons is fun to wonder about, or to use in fiction, but in real life you have to face the facts. They're either not real or just not cool.
    Yeah, reality is often disappointing. The idea of a shadowy cabal of puppet masters who have ultimate authority over the world is interesting, but completely ridiculous at the same time. I wonder who looked at the freemasons and thought "Yep. Those guys are definitely the shadow government." Lol.
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  7. #3847
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Luca View Post
    Wouldn't long term serving generals/marines and CEO's of big arms and weapons entrepresies have a little bit of leverage over whats going on in the country, as well as strong opposition leaders like nanci pelosi, wouldn't that really count as deep state as in leverage but without any conspiracy?
    If Deep State means that the government is working precisely as it's supposed to, with elected officials holding appropriate amounts of power and checking the power of the president, then yes, that is deep state. I don't think that's what it's supposed to mean though.


    Edit: Also would you say that the American agencies are always under full control of the current president?

    I'm obviously not talking any secret agenda behind their back lol, or any james bond conspiracy, merely pondering if for example the standing president Issues a request or order that doesn't align with that agency, or if the agency is currently in the midst of an operation that the president doesn't see fit, ( insert snowden example here), how much power does he have over them?
    The President is the leader of the Executive Branch. The legislative branch (Congress) and the Judicial Branch (the courts) should both be as powerful as the executive branch as far as federal governance. You seem to be under the impression that the president should have more power and the other parties should go along with him and her, when the actual goal of our system is that the people are represented, not that the president is appeased. With a president that didn't win the popular vote, strong opposition should be expected and is proof that our system isn't completely dead.
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  8. #3848

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I mean to say that there are groups and people with money and the right connections who hold and apply some influence no matter who is in the white house sounds perfectly reasonable to me. But i always thought the deep state conspiracy amounted to something more like democracy is just a front for the real rulers

  9. #3849

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    If Deep State means that the government is working precisely as it's supposed to, with elected officials holding appropriate amounts of power and checking the power of the president, then yes, that is deep state. I don't think that's what it's supposed to mean though.




    The President is the leader of the Executive Branch. The legislative branch (Congress) and the Judicial Branch (the courts) should both be as powerful as the executive branch as far as federal governance. You seem to be under the impression that the president should have more power and the other parties should go along with him and her, when the actual goal of our system is that the people are represented, not that the president is appeased. With a president that didn't win the popular vote, strong opposition should be expected and is proof that our system isn't completely dead.
    Im just comparing to our politics( or lack there of ) lol, our policts have been really bad.

    What wolfwood say kinda sums up what I meant, people like soros have some sort of influence I assume.

  10. #3850
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    We're really going to do another George Soros conspiracy? Really?
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  11. #3851

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by The D. View Post
    We're really going to do another George Soros conspiracy? Really?
    QAnon is just blood libel with some shiny new ribbons so that's no surprise.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  12. #3852
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    QAnon is just blood libel with some shiny new ribbons so that's no surprise.
    Some conspiracy theories are pretty imaginative. Like lizard people controlling the governments of the world, or the hollow moon being used as a base for extraterrestrial spacecraft. This is just getting sad though.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  13. #3853
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Luca View Post
    Im just comparing to our politics( or lack there of ) lol, our policts have been really bad.

    What wolfwood say kinda sums up what I meant, people like soros have some sort of influence I assume.
    Yeah, billionaires tend to have influence. One of them is literally the president. Do you think his interests are separate from that of other billionaires on average? I wager they aren't, and also I think his interests are in direct contrast to those of the American people.
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  14. #3854

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by The D. View Post
    We're really going to do another George Soros conspiracy? Really?
    Especially when Newt Gingrich already embarrassed himself on Fox News with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  15. #3855
    Discovered Stowaway Dorobō Neko's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I think the best part of making George Soros out to be this evil Jew overlord of all that is evil and liberal is that he is actually a pretty nice guy if you ever look into him outside of the fear mongering.

  16. #3856
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Especially when Newt Gingrich already embarrassed himself on Fox News with that.
    Newt gingrich embarrasses himself by being newt gingrich, so I'm not surprised.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  17. #3857

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorobō Neko View Post
    I think the best part of making George Soros out to be this evil Jew overlord of all that is evil and liberal is that he is actually a pretty nice guy if you ever look into him outside of the fear mongering.
    You could probably be both. Not saying nothing about him, outside of memes i have no interest in the man, but there has been plenty of sociable nice people who have also been complete monsters.

  18. #3858

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Can Anyone from Massachusetts tell me what there answering for the questions and why?

  19. #3859

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now


    No more teaching history, you will get indoctrinating propaganda and you will like or you got education at all.


  20. #3860
    Discovered Stowaway The D.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Biden is going to have a loooot of work to do just cleaning up after this orangutan if he gets himself elected.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

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