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Thread: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

  1. #461

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Looks like more people are starting to see the jig after this SBS thing

  2. #462

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by DaphneDescends View Post
    Arthur's translation is wrong. I'll break down the actual Japanese of the first part for anyone who wants to follow along.

    はい。やめるっていうか、

    I think most of the confusion is probably that it starts with simply saying Hai, which as a lot of non-Japanese readers would still probably recognize as "Yes". While it is true that Hai means Yes it can also be used as sort of a sentence starter as well, so you have to actually keep reading instead of jumping to conclusions! He then goes on to say yameru teiuka, yameru meaning "end" and teiuka being a phrase used to clarify a statement, kind of like "or rather?" or "how should I put it"? So again we should probably examine the next sentence before jumping to conclusions. I think he knew this was a correctional phrase (rather) and added on his own guess as to what it was correcting "rather than wanting it to end".

    ルフイの一番面白い部分、One Pieceって何なの?の物語が完結する、終わります。

    Here he says that it is the most "interesting" (strangely that is the exact word he uses) part of Luffy's story, "what is One Piece?" will conclude. He then adds a comma and "owarimasu", to further clarify that the mystery of One Piece will be concluded. While the phrase Monogatari, which means, story is used it is used immediately after "of what One Piece is" (Japanese grammar is kind of the reverse of English grammar). In other words he is saying the mystery of what One Piece is will be concluded. He does not say that the manga will be concluded and that's not because Japanese is indirect, he could directly say that if he wanted to. He choose to specify that the mystery of what One Piece is will be concluded within five years. And then moved on to hyping up the final arc, which I can break down if people want but the first posted translation is correct so not much point to really.
    Whats your personal interpretation?

  3. #463

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Luca View Post
    Whats your personal interpretation?
    I have no idea honestly. Greg pointed out that he may have used the clarification speak (the "teiuka" that most of my first paragraph was arguing about) because of the phrase "Yameru", which while can be used as a more straight forward "to end" is more often used as to "quit" and Oda could have seen as negative phrasing (i.e. are you giving up on One Piece!?!?). If you interpret it that way you can interpret the next sentence as "Because the story of what One Piece is will be finished, the manga will be finished". To be ultra clear for people who don't read Japanese he says finish twice but he doesn't introduce a new subject in between that. "One Pieceって何なの? / One Piece te nan na no" is literally "What is One Piece" with no margin of error. "の物語が完結する / no monogatari ga kanketsu suru" is the story (monogatari) will (ga) end (kanketsu suru) with no margin of error. He then adds a comma and just says "終わります. / owarimasu" which is just another way of saying end, or to be more specific kanketsu suru would usually be translated as something like "conclusion" where owari would usually be translated to "end". The double statement makes it sound like he is talking about something more dramatic like the end of the series and I can get why Greg and Arthur think that. To me though it's still weird that, given that anyone reading Volume 97 knows that One Piece is an actual physical object and has been foreshadowed to be something that will start a great war by Whitebeard, he choose to specify "what One Piece is" as being what ends instead of just saying the manga will be finished. I remember him saying that One Piece has a secret meaning in an interview before so maybe the twist will be that secret meaning and he'll still go to Laugh Tale before the final war concludes. Or maybe he really will go to Laugh Tale at the very end, though that seems weird not just because of the aforementioned foreshadowing but just from a narrative perspective beating the world government and then getting some final information epilogue as the end of the series would be kind of anti-climatic. I noticed One Piece wiki added a translation of the SBS to everything but this question, unfortunately this isn't really something you can get a definitive conclusion on with the way it's worded. People who want to believe that One Piece will be ending in five years upon landing on Laugh Tale will, people who don't won't. I do just want to clarify again that guessing how many chapters something can take is a complete crap shoot even if Oda has a giant notebook with all the details of what's going to happen next written down. As I mentioned in another thread Gintama overshot it's actual ending which was scheduled by the magazine itself that very same year with WAY WAY less juggling plot points than One Piece (it was already basically just wrapping up a few things). Trying to guess something five years in advance has a pretty huge margin of era, as in several years worth. I'd be shocked if One Piece ends before 2028. Shueisha is probably gonna bring the number up more in order to get lapsed fans back in to the volumes and hope they start subscribing to Jump to be part of the final stretch. Best just to ignore the noise and enjoy the story, sense the only things Oda has really been cutting corners on are the things he's been cutting corners on for the past ten years (secondary fights and moments that don't really add to anything but the pacing, i.e. the way it jumps from Drake walking out to being confronted in 990).

  4. #464

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Well, what we can know is that whenever someone asks "How do you see yourself in 5 years" we can answer with "knowing what the One Piece is!" and that's exciting!

  5. #465

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by NamiRobinFrankyAce View Post
    So do you really believe Oda just spoiled us when Luffy will find the One Piece,and what will happen after that? Nah i dont buy it. My interpretation of his words is like the one Artur wrote in his website,so basically the story ends with Luffy finding the One Piece,and of course we will see the aftermath but it will be something shorter than a final war,which will happen before Luffy finds the One Piece. Yeah i remember what Whitebeard said,but he could be wrong about a war happening after the discovery of the One Piece. So basically the manga will still end in 5 years according to Oda.
    Do people not understand how this doesn't make sense? Why are we supposed to find out what the World Government, the great big bad of the series, did during the Void Century AFTER they are defeated in the Final War? Why would we care about the origins of the Ancient Weapons, AFTER they've been used for whatever function necessary in the final war?

    Even One Piece has been directly referred to as the catalyst for truly starting said "Grand War". This is directly from Whitebeard's own mouth before he died. Roger himself found One Piece, and ONLY then did he realize he couldn't do anything.


    Essentially the point I'm making is, the main characters have to have a motivation, a reason for fighting the World Government. Oda has to entice his readers to feel invested in the same thing. You know those wonderful flashbacks he does virtually every single arc? Tha'ts because he sets the villains up with atrocities so we can feel anger or sadness towards them. The Void Century is virtually One Piece's biggest version of this narrative method, and it has to be used at Laugh Tale, because that is where it is meant to be revealed, just like many other questions.


    This doesn't come AFTER the conflict is over, it must come before. One Piece isn't just a treasure, its something the World Government fears. This is extremely important to understand.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by DaphneDescends View Post
    I have no idea honestly. Greg pointed out that he may have used the clarification speak (the "teiuka" that most of my first paragraph was arguing about) because of the phrase "Yameru", which while can be used as a more straight forward "to end" is more often used as to "quit" and Oda could have seen as negative phrasing (i.e. are you giving up on One Piece!?!?). If you interpret it that way you can interpret the next sentence as "Because the story of what One Piece is will be finished, the manga will be finished". To be ultra clear for people who don't read Japanese he says finish twice but he doesn't introduce a new subject in between that. "One Pieceって何なの? / One Piece te nan na no" is literally "What is One Piece" with no margin of error. "の物語が完結する / no monogatari ga kanketsu suru" is the story (monogatari) will (ga) end (kanketsu suru) with no margin of error. He then adds a comma and just says "終わります. / owarimasu" which is just another way of saying end, or to be more specific kanketsu suru would usually be translated as something like "conclusion" where owari would usually be translated to "end". The double statement makes it sound like he is talking about something more dramatic like the end of the series and I can get why Greg and Arthur think that. To me though it's still weird that, given that anyone reading Volume 97 knows that One Piece is an actual physical object and has been foreshadowed to be something that will start a great war by Whitebeard, he choose to specify "what One Piece is" as being what ends instead of just saying the manga will be finished. I remember him saying that One Piece has a secret meaning in an interview before so maybe the twist will be that secret meaning and he'll still go to Laugh Tale before the final war concludes. Or maybe he really will go to Laugh Tale at the very end, though that seems weird not just because of the aforementioned foreshadowing but just from a narrative perspective beating the world government and then getting some final information epilogue as the end of the series would be kind of anti-climatic. I noticed One Piece wiki added a translation of the SBS to everything but this question, unfortunately this isn't really something you can get a definitive conclusion on with the way it's worded. People who want to believe that One Piece will be ending in five years upon landing on Laugh Tale will, people who don't won't. I do just want to clarify again that guessing how many chapters something can take is a complete crap shoot even if Oda has a giant notebook with all the details of what's going to happen next written down. As I mentioned in another thread Gintama overshot it's actual ending which was scheduled by the magazine itself that very same year with WAY WAY less juggling plot points than One Piece (it was already basically just wrapping up a few things). Trying to guess something five years in advance has a pretty huge margin of era, as in several years worth. I'd be shocked if One Piece ends before 2028. Shueisha is probably gonna bring the number up more in order to get lapsed fans back in to the volumes and hope they start subscribing to Jump to be part of the final stretch. Best just to ignore the noise and enjoy the story, sense the only things Oda has really been cutting corners on are the things he's been cutting corners on for the past ten years (secondary fights and moments that don't really add to anything but the pacing, i.e. the way it jumps from Drake walking out to being confronted in 990).
    Everything about your personal view on how its supposed to play out, I totally agree with. I've been arguing this stuff for years with people, so its interesting its all starting to come back here (the whole big question of "Will One Piece end when Luffy becomes PK or will there be more?").

    For me, as much as I care about this, every single chapter is a victory. Every single one. Every arc we finish is a major accomplishment. The more Oda finishes, the more grand the story becomes. If I get the character interactions I want in the end or the plotlines I care about, I'll say "great, thats one down and I'm glad it happened!"
    Last edited by Gia Sado; September 16th, 2020 at 05:45 PM.

  6. #466

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gia Sado View Post
    ...
    You're absolutely right that it makes a lot of sense for the final war (or, at least, the last stretch) to come after Laugh Tale. That's what most readers think will happen. I do too.

    But that's not the only thing that makes sense.

    As you said, there must be a reason and a motivation to fight the WG... but it's wrong to think that we need to learn about the Void Century to create motivation. The series has given us plenty of reasons already, like slavery, corruption, exploration of the poor, etc. More importantly, right now Oda is writing the ultimate set up to fight the WG, because of Sabo and Vivi (personal motives for Luffy) and because of that "great cleansing" plot.

    I'd even argue that it's more important to have current reasons to overthrow the Tenryuubito than to legitimize the war because of stuff that happened centuries ago.

    So yes, the final war already works without Laugh Tale. The fact that Luffy will reach Laugh Tale before the end of the war is just for narrative convenience, since it gives additional information and background for the conflict.

    However, alternatively, I can imagine Laugh Tale being the last arc too, so the True History would only polish what we had already learned during the journey, and to emphasize the themes and parallels with what happened during the Void Century. Maybe it could even be a crazy plot twist to subvert our understandment of the war that just had happened. I would laugh out loud, which may be the idea, I guess.

  7. #467

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    You're absolutely right that it makes a lot of sense for the final war (or, at least, the last stretch) to come after Laugh Tale. That's what most readers think will happen. I do too.

    But that's not the only thing that makes sense.

    As you said, there must be a reason and a motivation to fight the WG... but it's wrong to think that we need to learn about the Void Century to create motivation. The series has given us plenty of reasons already, like slavery, corruption, exploration of the poor, etc. More importantly, right now Oda is writing the ultimate set up to fight the WG, because of Sabo and Vivi (personal motives for Luffy) and because of that "great cleansing" plot.

    I'd even argue that it's more important to have current reasons to overthrow the Tenryuubito than to legitimize the war because of stuff that happened centuries ago.

    So yes, the final war already works without Laugh Tale. The fact that Luffy will reach Laugh Tale before the end of the war is just for narrative convenience, since it gives additional information and background for the conflict.

    However, alternatively, I can imagine Laugh Tale being the last arc too, so the True History would only polish what we had already learned during the journey, and to emphasize the themes and parallels with what happened during the Void Century. Maybe it could even be a crazy plot twist to subvert our understandment of the war that just had happened. I would laugh out loud, which may be the idea, I guess.

    I do need to paint this question though: Why would Roger, of all people, say he was too early then (we all know the answer why, this is just rhetorical)? If they could defeat the WG as they were now, and not without the knowledge found on Laugh Tale, it almost entirely defeats the purpose of WB 's speech and Roger's entire flashback in Wano. It basically nulls Rayleigh whole thing about "moving too quickly" and "seeing the information for yourself".

    I definitely see there being motivation to starting the Final War though the things you mention, however, the scale I am talking about is the world being shaken by the pure discovery of One Piece, coupled with the ancient weapons being found/present (since it seems that Roger couldn't do anything because the Mermaid princess wasn't born yet), in top the Void Century. This has been purely set up by the story. There is something there that Luffy must see/learn/do in order to "challenge the WG", or else it entirely ruins Roger's entire story

    Because of this, I don't think Oda is one to break his foreshadowed plotlines, it just doesn't make sense when 30 chapters ago, he reiterated this exact concept again a 3rd time.
    Last edited by Gia Sado; September 16th, 2020 at 06:38 PM.

  8. #468
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    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gia Sado View Post
    I do need to paint this question though: Why would Roger, of all people, say he was too early then (we all know the answer why, this is just rhetorical)? If they could defeat the WG as they were now, and not without the knowledge found on Laugh Tale, it almost entirely defeats the purpose of WB 's speech and Roger's entire flashback in Wano. It basically nulls Rayleigh whole thing about "moving too quickly" and "seeing the information for yourself".

    I definitely see there being motivation to starting the Final War though the things you mention, however, the scale I am talking about is the world being shaken by the pure discovery of One Piece, coupled with the ancient weapons being found/present (since it seems that Roger couldn't do anything because the Mermaid princess wasn't born yet). This has been purely set up by the story. There is something there that Luffy must see/learn/do in order to "challenge the WG", or else it entirely ruins Roger's entire story

    Because of this, I don't think Oda is one to break his foreshadowed plotlines, it just doesn't make sense when 30 chapters ago, he reiterated this exact concept again a 3rd time.
    To play devil's advocate, Rayleigh isn't just talking about One Piece here, but the entire journey and what it entails/will lead them to discover. We know Raftel is the destination, but we don't know what they'll learn as they continue getting closer, including if they go to Lodestar and read other Poneglyphs.
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  9. #469
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    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gia Sado View Post
    I do need to paint this question though: Why would Roger, of all people, say he was too early then (we all know the answer why, this is just rhetorical)? If they could defeat the WG as they were now, and not without the knowledge found on Laugh Tale, it almost entirely defeats the purpose of WB 's speech and Roger's entire flashback in Wano. It basically nulls Rayleigh whole thing about "moving too quickly" and "seeing the information for yourself".

    I definitely see there being motivation to starting the Final War though the things you mention, however, the scale I am talking about is the world being shaken by the pure discovery of One Piece, coupled with the ancient weapons being found/present (since it seems that Roger couldn't do anything because the Mermaid princess wasn't born yet), in top the Void Century. This has been purely set up by the story. There is something there that Luffy must see/learn/do in order to "challenge the WG", or else it entirely ruins Roger's entire story

    Because of this, I don't think Oda is one to break his foreshadowed plotlines, it just doesn't make sense when 30 chapters ago, he reiterated this exact concept again a 3rd time.
    Wasn't the whole reason Roger went to Raftel, because he was dying of his illness? I presume he didn't show people the true history because he would have died soon anyways.

  10. #470

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    To play devil's advocate, Rayleigh isn't just talking about One Piece here, but the entire journey and what it entails/will lead them to discover. We know Raftel is the destination, but we don't know what they'll learn as they continue getting closer, including if they go to Lodestar and read other Poneglyphs.

    I don't know man, it seems like stretching the interpretation of something thats pretty clear when we already have 2 other examples to go by.

    - Roger told Whitebeard the entire story. Whitebeard himself gave the Marines/WG an omen based on that story. That story involves someone finding the titular treasure and shaking the world.

    - Oden's flashback practically solidifies that Roger's crew was simply too "hasty" to do anything, because the Mermaid Princess wasnt born yet (at least that's one of the reasons)


    You don't have to overthink what "could" be at play, when Oda has very plainly spelled it out on 2 occasions. Discovering One Piece is central to taking on the World Government

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny B. Decent View Post
    Wasn't the whole reason Roger went to Raftel, because he was dying of his illness? I presume he didn't show people the true history because he would have died soon anyways.
    Roger went to Laugh Tale not because he had a motivation to stop the world government, but because he wanted to reach the fabled, final island. Luffy doesnt have that same motivation either, which is my whole point. Both wanted to just adventure and find Laugh Tale/One Piece.


    It wasn't until after Roger sailed to Laugh Tale that he realized something needs to be done about presumably the WG, but he was too early. He was dying already, he couldn't wait for the fabled time anyway.

    Compare that to Luffy. His sole drive is to find One Piece. Sure, facing the WG could be started by other means, but the REAL reason for facing them and defeating them lies behind One Piece and the Void Century. This IS what Whitebeard talks about. This is what Oda has been hinting every chance he gets.

    Why would he not use the narrative setups he's laid out to do so in the future? It makes zero sense otherwise.

  11. #471

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gia Sado View Post
    I do need to paint this question though: Why would Roger, of all people, say he was too early then (we all know the answer why, this is just rhetorical)? If they could defeat the WG as they were now, and not without the knowledge found on Laugh Tale, it almost entirely defeats the purpose of WB 's speech and Roger's entire flashback in Wano. It basically nulls Rayleigh whole thing about "moving too quickly" and "seeing the information for yourself".
    Why don't you try to answer these questions as a writing exercise? There is no right answer, really, because there are infinite ways to justify these things according to different ways you might want to pay off the story.

    For example, was Roger too early because Poseidon was not alive yet, or was he too early because the One Piece tells a prophecy of something that will happen exactly 800 years after the Void Century? Each of these two premises lead to vastly different anwers to your question. Now imagine even other premises.

    Anyway, think with me for a second here... Laugh Tale tells a story that is deeply connected with the history of the world, something huge that made Roger and WB believe that a war would shake the world... but do people need to read the One Piece for this war to happen, though? Or is it only a nudge? Are there other paths which lead to this war anyway? Because if this war is deeply connected with the history of the world, I guess there should be more vestiges and triggers, right? For example, if the True History tells about an ancient evil who is still lurking around, then it makes sense that this ancient evil should still be leaving traces of its evilness and rottenness, so you should be able to perceive this evil even without learning about the Void Century.

    It's ironic, but the war happening before Laugh Tale, contradicting WB's words, is only proof of good writing, because it shows the inevitability of the event and how urgent it is.

    I definitely see there being motivation to starting the Final War though the things you mention, however, the scale I am talking about is the world being shaken by the pure discovery of One Piece, coupled with the ancient weapons being found/present (since it seems that Roger couldn't do anything because the Mermaid princess wasn't born yet), in top the Void Century. This has been purely set up by the story. There is something there that Luffy must see/learn/do in order to "challenge the WG", or else it entirely ruins Roger's entire story
    I think you're too dogmatic.

    First, not every important piece of information is in Laugh Tale. For instance, Robin already knows about Pluton and Poseidon, what/who they are and where to find them, so the Ancient Weapons can be understood and used in the final war already. There's no need to learn about the Void Century for these things to play out their role.

    The discovery of One Piece shakes the world, absolutely, but its influence doesn't need to be so direct, but have a more subtle repercussion. For example, one could say that the One Piece has already shaken the world, since it was discovered by Roger and because of it he created the Great Age of Pirates, and the Great Age of Pirates has influenced Luffy into becoming a pirate, therefore allowing him to bring the Dawn to the world. That works, right?

    If we want to be realistic about it from a political point of view, the True History/One Piece should never be legitimate enough to stir up a war. Some dark shit that happened 800 years ago shouldn't be enough to overthrow a functional regime. Just imagine if the world was beautiful nowadays and the WG the best thing ever, and peace and equality were everywhere... huh, why would you change it? Why would the nations and the citzens care about what happened centuries ago?

    It's only because of what's happening today that this entire war makes sense. The One Piece only reinforces it. Gives it more juice.

    As I said, it makes sense to learn about the One Piece before the final arc. That's what I always believed in. But there are definitely other ways to make this happen without betraying that has been built up.

    Because of this, I don't think Oda is one to break his foreshadowed plotlines, it just doesn't make sense when 30 chapters ago, he reiterated this exact concept again a 3rd time.
    This SBS comment is not so straightfoward. It is saying that the greatest war is starting after Wano, and that OP will end in 5 years.

  12. #472
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    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gia Sado View Post
    I don't know man, it seems like stretching the interpretation of something thats pretty clear when we already have 2 other examples to go by.

    - Roger told Whitebeard the entire story. Whitebeard himself gave the Marines/WG an omen based on that story. That story involves someone finding the titular treasure and shaking the world.

    - Oden's flashback practically solidifies that Roger's crew was simply too "hasty" to do anything, because the Mermaid Princess wasnt born yet (at least that's one of the reasons)
    Laugh Tale definitely seems to be where the history is told in its fullness, but I think part of why Rayleigh is preaching hastiness is because of what they didn't learn before going there. If it was just the lack of a mermaid princess, Rayleigh wouldn't have talked about the Straw Hats maybe making a different decision. The mermaid princess is certainly a part of it, but he's emphasizing the journey for a reason that we don't know yet.

    Of course I may also just be reaching, but worse things have happened.
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  13. #473

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Why don't you try to answer these questions as a writing exercise? There is no right answer, really, because there are infinite ways to justify these things according to different ways you might want to pay off the story.
    Like I said in that quotation...it was a rhetorical question. The answer is already flatly laid out by the dialogue and plot. Rayleigh's conversation with Robin, Whitebeards warning to Blackbeard and Sengoku and Roger's understanding of Joyboy's prophecy are all there for anyone to read. Hell, even Oden makes the same exact proclamation before he dies, that there is a war coming. I don't need to answer this... I asked it because its there and there is a right answer, said multiple times in the story. Learning about One Piece and going to Laugh Tale is central to "challenging" the world and "doing something" about the issue's specified by Joyboy's tale.

    Here's the problem, nobody KNOWS why the actual issue that needs resolving is! Only Roger and his crew does! However they were too early. This is the point I'm making, both the [Question] and the [Answer] to taking down the WG are locked behind Laugh Tale. There are certainly other problems against the WG, yes, but none of that revolves around the Void Century and One Piece, precisely the things the WG doesn't want anyone to find. Defeating them first entirely defeats the purpose of this mystery.


    For example, was Roger too early because Poseidon was not alive yet, or was he too early because the One Piece tells a prophecy of something that will happen exactly 800 years after the Void Century? Each of these two premises lead to vastly different anwers to your question. Now imagine even other premises.
    These are virtually the same idea. It all is. It all revolves around a timestamp of "when" the prophecy is supposed to take place. Fishman Islands destruction, Joy Boy's apology to an early Mermaid Princes, Shirahoshi's birth, Joy Boy's story about something happening soon in the present, finding One Piece, learning of the Void Century. It ALL needs to happen at once, hence the point I'm making. Roger was missing "key" ingredients to this event.


    Anyway, think with me for a second here... Laugh Tale tells a story that is deeply connected with the history of the world, something huge that made Roger and WB believe that a war would shake the world... but do people need to read the One Piece for this war to happen, though? Or is it only a nudge? Are there other paths which lead to this war anyway? Because if this war is deeply connected with the history of the world, I guess there should be more vestiges and triggers, right? For example, if the True History tells about an ancient evil who is still lurking around, then it makes sense that this ancient evil should still be leaving traces of its evilness and rottenness, so you should be able to perceive this evil even without learning about the Void Century.

    It's ironic, but the war happening before Laugh Tale, contradicting WB's words, is only proof of good writing, because it shows the inevitability of the event and how urgent it is.
    No lol I disagree with this wholeheartedly. If the author tells you something 4 times now that 'x' event should happen because of 'y' discovery of a certain plot device (i.e. One Piece), I expect it to happen that way. This not at all spoiling the direction of the story, its foreshadowing the events of a major section of the story. "Loosely" learning about what the WG did or only receiving a "nudge" after 23 years is NOT good payoff.

    It doesn't matter if one can "perceive this evil", the evil is already "perceived" and still nothing has happened yet. Roger and Rayleigh knew about it. Whitebeard knew and did nothing for 22 years. Robin's entire country was destroyed to keep this secret. The Revolutionaries currently exist to remove the Tenryuubito. It IS there. The point still stands that all of this: The Revolutions, the conflicts, gathering of allies, the birth of Poseidon, the discovery of One Piece, the WG's secrets and the Void Century, are ALL central to defeating the WG and ALL need to happen at once. This is why Roger/Rayleigh and Whitebeard have done nothing. Its not about getting a "nudge", its about getting a "nudge" as well as spilling the whole barrel over.



    I think you're too dogmatic.
    How am I being dogmatic? Its the authors own words!


    First, not every important piece of information is in Laugh Tale. For instance, Robin already knows about Pluton and Poseidon, what/who they are and where to find them, so the Ancient Weapons can be understood and used in the final war already. There's no need to learn about the Void Century for these things to play out their role.
    We have ZERO knowledge of why these weapons exist and what their use is for. The 2 Poneglyph's Robin has read only tell of locations, thats literally it. She explains this both times, once to Cobra in Alabasta, another to Neptune in Fishman Island. I can't believe we are still arguing over this stuff, especially since specifically in Chapter 967, Oden LAYS out what Joy Boy's story tells: What the Void Century is, What the Will of D. is, What the Ancient Weapons are, and what One Piece actually is. Come on, this was not even 30 chapters ago....why are we jumping to conclusions like "well actually, maybe don't need to learn everything". Like no man, it's laid out right there in the story being teased.


    The discovery of One Piece shakes the world, absolutely, but its influence doesn't need to be so direct, but have a more subtle repercussion. For example, one could say that the One Piece has already shaken the world, since it was discovered by Roger and because of it he created the Great Age of Pirates, and the Great Age of Pirates has influenced Luffy into becoming a pirate, therefore allowing him to bring the Dawn to the world. That works, right?
    No, because One Piece existence was a mere fable when Roger died. Whitebeard solidified that it existed right after he says that "Whoever finds that treasure, he will shake the world to its core". So no, its existence alone has nothing to do with "shaking" the world. What it actually is as a treasure, that mystery resolved is what will shake the world.


    If we want to be realistic about it from a political point of view, the True History/One Piece should never be legitimate enough to stir up a war. Some dark shit that happened 800 years ago shouldn't be enough to overthrow a functional regime. Just imagine if the world was beautiful nowadays and the WG the best thing ever, and peace and equality were everywhere... huh, why would you change it? Why would the nations and the citzens care about what happened centuries ago?
    Except the fact that the World Government is literally covering it up and murdering entire countries because of it! So, uh, yeah its pretty political if they are terrified of that leaking out into the world, almost as if the entire world may turn on them for it....


    It's only because of what's happening today that this entire war makes sense. The One Piece only reinforces it. Gives it more juice.
    This is probably the only part I can 'sort of' agree with. Yes, the war needed to happen now, not when Roger was alive. However, One Piece is "more" than just a reinforcement, in my opinion. Though, this argument is entirely pointless to have since we have no idea what One Piece even is yet. I will say once again though that Oda has made it clear, 4 times now, that finding One Piece is central to "doing something" about changing the world. Its the whole reason for this manga in fact.


    As I said, it makes sense to learn about the One Piece before the final arc. That's what I always believed in. But there are definitely other ways to make this happen without betraying that has been built up.
    So we are in agreement, but not in agreement I guess. I personally don't think there is another way frankly. Not learning of all of the atrocities of one of the last major antagonist groups before said antagonist group goes down does not make any sense to me. Sorry, but I disagree.


    This SBS comment is not so straightfoward. It is saying that the greatest war is starting after Wano, and that OP will end in 5 years.
    This comment confuses me. You are saying its not so straightforward, yet you are saying what it says straightforwardly. Anyway, I agree that its NOT straightforward since many reputable translators and native japanese speakers, and even Greg understand that Oda's selective wording about "Luffy's Journey" in the SBS can be taken in a variety of different ways, and everyone seems to have their own interpretations to what it means.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    Laugh Tale definitely seems to be where the history is told in its fullness, but I think part of why Rayleigh is preaching hastiness is because of what they didn't learn before going there. If it was just the lack of a mermaid princess, Rayleigh wouldn't have talked about the Straw Hats maybe making a different decision. The mermaid princess is certainly a part of it, but he's emphasizing the journey for a reason that we don't know yet.

    Of course I may also just be reaching, but worse things have happened.
    You're take on this already is already being answered if you look into it. Rayleigh is emphasizing the journey, no? Well, during Luffy's journey, he's managed to:

    - Gain 9 powerful members

    - Gain the respect and trust of 6 Kingdoms so far (Drum, Alabasta, Amazon Lily, Fishman Island, Dressrosa, and now Wano). 4 of those Kingdoms took part in the Reverie. Each of those Kingdom's likely has allies (for example, Prudence Kingdom allies with Dressrosa) to further convert to their cause. Potentially Elbaf too, which is considered the "strongest country".

    - Met the Mermaid Princess, one of the ancient weapons.

    - Gained an entire fleet with 7 Captains

    - Gaining allies with respective Supernova Captains (Law, Bege, Kid, etc)

    - Gaining allies with former New World pirates (Former WB pirates, etc)

    - Gaining allies with former villains and Shichibukai (Buggy, Crocodile, etc) and potentially others as we near the end.

    - Gain allies through the Revolutionaries and his brother, Sabo.


    By NOT finding out what One Piece is and "taking their time", they have amassed and converted entire countries to respect pirates and much more. Imagine Rayleigh told them right there? Would they be compelled to "do something about it" right there and then? Would Luffy have recruited Jinbe? Gotten a fleet? Saved entire countries who can convert other countries (Like Prudence?) to revolt. Find out that his brother was alive and leading the Revolutionaries with his father?

    This, in my opinion, is what Rayleigh was talking about. Take your time, make allies, see the world and learn of its other hardships. Only after that, and when you find out everything, can you do something about it.
    Last edited by Gia Sado; September 16th, 2020 at 08:48 PM.

  14. #474

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    I'll end my part of the discussion here. I feel like many of your answers don't point out what's wrong in my alternatives, but instead you say what's right instead. IMO, that misses the point of this endeavor, because the objective is to say why something doesn't work for its own faults, not to explain why there's a more probable and foreshadowed outcome.

    The way you expect things to play out is very logical. As I said before, I have believed in this structure for years, and I still do.

    However, I'm not as dogmatic as you. I also assume misdirections, subversions, shortcuts, surprises, twists, misinterpretations, and I accept that things don't need to play out in the most obvious way. It might even be that the story was never meant to be anything like what we've been lead to believe. Roger and his crew laughed when they learned of the True History, and I have no idea how the tragedy of the Void Century can be funny.

    There is a lot of foreshadowing, but things are not as concrete as you make them to be.

  15. #475

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Depends on how you take their "Laughter". I personally took it as a sense of irony. Maybe they are laughing purely because they couldn't do anything about it after just finding it all out. But perhaps Joy Boy, as evidenced by his name, did write a funny story through the true history. Perhaps a measurement of his character is what was funny.

    However, we know its not "really" that funny if the WG is willing decimate islands and erase history because of it or enough to make Whitebeard tell the WG they would tremble should someone find out. But, maaaaaaaybe its all because Im farted at an ancient kingdom party and they all laughed.


    Anyway, sorry. I didn't mean to come off as "my side" being the "only side" of things. I totally get that Oda can subvert expectations any which way he wants.


    All anyone can say in the end is we'll see what happens I guess.
    Last edited by Gia Sado; September 16th, 2020 at 09:33 PM.

  16. #476
    Discovered Stowaway Jin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by DaphneDescends View Post
    ルフイの一番面白い部分、One Pieceって何なの?の物語が完結する、終わります。 Here he says that it is the most "interesting" (strangely that is the exact word he uses) part of Luffy's story, "what is One Piece?" will conclude. He then adds a comma and "owarimasu", to further clarify that the mystery of One Piece will be concluded. While the phrase Monogatari, which means, story is used it is used immediately after "of what One Piece is" (Japanese grammar is kind of the reverse of English grammar). In other words he is saying the mystery of what One Piece is will be concluded. He does not say that the manga will be concluded and that's not because Japanese is indirect, he could directly say that if he wanted to. He choose to specify that the mystery of what One Piece is will be concluded within five years. And then moved on to hyping up the final arc, which I can break down if people want but the first posted translation is correct so not much point to really.
    Maybe a litte late to the party here, but your japanese here seems to be missing a couple of words:
    Quote Originally Posted by redon View Post
    The sentence is: "やめるっていうか、ルフィの冒険の一番面白い部分、One Pieceって何なの?の物語が完結するから、終わります。", which, according to my (admittedly limited) knowledge of japanese, should mean something like: "Rather than stopping, the story of the most interesting part of luffy's adventure, the question of 'what is the One Piece?', will conclude, so it (probably referring to the series) will end". Now, My japanese is far from fluent so I will wait for the official translation before drawing any definite conclusions about this, but it seems to me at least like Oda intends to try to end the series in five years.

  17. #477

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    We know Oda has the end in mind since the begining and for a long time we imagined that this end was Luffy discovering the One Piece.

    I think we can trust Oda in imagining a scenario where it makes sense. If our limited imagination cannot see it happen, it is rather our fault than the author one

  18. #478

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jin View Post
    Maybe a litte late to the party here, but your japanese here seems to be missing a couple of words: The sentence is: "やめるっていうか、ルフィの冒険の一番面白い部分、One Pieceって何なの?の物語が完結するから、終わります。", which, according to my (admittedly limited) knowledge of japanese, should mean something like: "Rather than stopping, the story of the most interesting part of luffy's adventure, the question of 'what is the One Piece?', will conclude, so it (probably referring to the series) will end". Now, My japanese is far from fluent so I will wait for the official translation before drawing any definite conclusions about this, but it seems to me at least like Oda intends to try to end the series in five years.
    Shit, thanks, guess I was jumping between typing between Kanji too fast on a lower quality scan and just completely missed it (been referring to my own type-out sense then).

  19. #479

    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Someone pointed out the withebear speech and it makes a lot of sense, why retract on what was outright said?

  20. #480
    Discovered Stowaway andre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Volume 97 Predictions/Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gia Sado View Post
    You're take on this already is already being answered if you look into it. Rayleigh is emphasizing the journey, no? Well, during Luffy's journey, he's managed to:

    - Gain 9 powerful members

    - Gain the respect and trust of 6 Kingdoms so far (Drum, Alabasta, Amazon Lily, Fishman Island, Dressrosa, and now Wano). 4 of those Kingdoms took part in the Reverie. Each of those Kingdom's likely has allies (for example, Prudence Kingdom allies with Dressrosa) to further convert to their cause. Potentially Elbaf too, which is considered the "strongest country".

    - Met the Mermaid Princess, one of the ancient weapons.

    - Gained an entire fleet with 7 Captains

    - Gaining allies with respective Supernova Captains (Law, Bege, Kid, etc)

    - Gaining allies with former New World pirates (Former WB pirates, etc)

    - Gaining allies with former villains and Shichibukai (Buggy, Crocodile, etc) and potentially others as we near the end.

    - Gain allies through the Revolutionaries and his brother, Sabo.


    By NOT finding out what One Piece is and "taking their time", they have amassed and converted entire countries to respect pirates and much more. Imagine Rayleigh told them right there? Would they be compelled to "do something about it" right there and then? Would Luffy have recruited Jinbe? Gotten a fleet? Saved entire countries who can convert other countries (Like Prudence?) to revolt. Find out that his brother was alive and leading the Revolutionaries with his father?

    This, in my opinion, is what Rayleigh was talking about. Take your time, make allies, see the world and learn of its other hardships. Only after that, and when you find out everything, can you do something about it.
    Gaining allies very well could have been what Rayleigh meant, but we have no proof to actually suggest so. We know that The Birth of the Mermaid Princess is vital to whatever the Sea King's are hoping for. We don't know whether a lack of allies or support from countries was what held the Roger Pirates back. It could just as easily be a time thing for one reason or another, as Roger wishes he could be born in Joy Boy's time, which might imply that he could do something about whatever back then. I don't know, not many do.
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