Naruto Thread XII: This really has to be the final Naruto thread, right?

[Silence]

I wanna know about this Twitter meltdown.

Spoiler:

The death of who? Oh you mean Boruto's dad? He's no important.

But on a serious note wouldn't this particular development been called since it's first chapter? In the colour page of a destroyed Konoha?

Some have pointed that out, yes, so there was always that possibility looming. It never sat well with me, I can tell you that. Some stories are so good you can pull off this kind of outcome even with the built in expectations that come with an audience that has bonded with these characters, and this setting, for almost twenty years.

Is Boruto that kind of story? (It’s definitely not)


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[pariston_hill]

I wanna know about this Twitter meltdown.


Some have pointed that out, yes, so there was always that possibility looming. It never sat well with me, I can tell you that. Some stories are so good you can pull off this kind of outcome even with the built in expectations that come with an audience that has bonded with these characters, and this setting, for almost twenty years.

Is Boruto that kind of story? (It’s definitely not)


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That's way most of sequels don't bode well with me, most writes go for the easy "and things got worse" due to the characters we know and love screwing up big time and having their kids rise to occasion and save the day, instead of going for the more organic albeit harder legacy story. And that's why I value Batman Beyond greatly even if I haven't watched in ages.

[Razh]

I wanna know about this Twitter meltdown.

Sounds juicy.

If only there were some people around that read Japanese. Hmmm....

Found some backlash over different series from a year ago. The person attacking is a complete asshole, like wow.
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comme...g_attacked_on/

[zeltrax225]

If someone can link me to the meltdown regarding this on twitter or a relevant thread I'll do a rough translate.
I'm pretty sure if Kishi takes over, that character won't die here and will get revived later like the usual tropes so there's really no cause for uproar.
The only issue is probably how cheap and stupid it is done, power levels considered.

Sounds juicy.

If only there were some people around that read Japanese. Hmmm....

Found some backlash over different series from a year ago. The person attacking is a complete asshole, like wow.
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comme...g_attacked_on/

The targeted episode wasn't even bad.
As a FGO fan I had no idea and the episode was one I thought added substance and appeal to an otherwise straightforward fillerish game script.

[Cyclone_Baroness]

I thought that the writer was at least staying on for anime oversight. Since it's so different anyways.

[pariston_hill]

https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1007936

Spoiler:

Are you telling me Kurama got a degree in quantum physics in the meantime? Is there a tail beast university?

[gyuukarubi]

Remember when this shit was about ninja?

Meanwhile, Kurama casually discussing quantum physics and boxing shows how little they care these days.

What kind of story are they trying to tell with Boruto? Thematically, Naruto has always been about the strength of the youth — how the next generation would change things.

But what of Boruto’s ambitions? What does he actually want to achieve? Maybe Naruto’s death will help him understand that.

[Cyclone_Baroness]

Boruto declared early on he didn't want to be Hokage. Sarada does though. Unfortunately Sasuke is spending time training Boruto over her. I feel that Kishi taking over won't improve the story much. If at all.

This is also why I prefer the episodes focusing more on slice of life stuff. The battles haven't been interesting to me since the Sasuke retrieval arc.

[gyuukarubi]

I know that Boruto doesn’t want to be Hokage, but he hasn’t changed much from this bocchan-esque character.

Naruto had ambitions from day one: to become the strongest ninja and gain respect from his community. What goal is Boruto headed towards and why?

Maybe it’s to become his own man and Naruto’s death will facilitate that. I don’t know; I haven’t been watching the show at all — it’s rather uninteresting (but DOES expand upon their world).

[zeltrax225]

wow that was really boring to read

[Razh]

Remember when this shit was about ninja?

Some earlier parts of original Naruto, sure.

[andre]

wow that was really boring to read

Yeah. No part of the actual choreography of the fight was interesting. Compare that with Luffy vs. just about anyone and its a snoozefest. Hell, Kaido's page and a half of a fight in 996 was more interesting.

[gyuukarubi]

I’m just excited for Kishimoto to come back. Toriyama’s involvement with Super has really created a compelling work of art — I’d love to understand how Kishimoto thinks of this world he created.

[zeltrax225]

To be honest I won't put too much expectations on that considering his involvement wasn't minor in the first place

[PatTraverse]

I’m just excited for Kishimoto to come back. Toriyama’s involvement with Super has really created a compelling work of art — I’d love to understand how Kishimoto thinks of this world he created.

Going to strongly disagree both with Dragon Ball Super that i will not talk more about since this is not the thread for it and Naruto. Kishimoto's track record ever since the first part of Naruto ended has been very poor. It was a complete mess with the final villain being laughable. Samurai 8 was mediocre and rightfully canned.

[gyuukarubi]

Going to strongly disagree both with Dragon Ball Super that i will not talk more about since this is not the thread for it and Naruto. Kishimoto's track record ever since the first part of Naruto ended has been very poor. It was a complete mess with the final villain being laughable. Samurai 8 was mediocre and rightfully canned.

It’s okay to disagree — people have their own opinions and we don’t have to believe in the same things. Our thoughts on both series come down to personal preference and the level of understanding / subjective interpretations :)

I really loved the final battle of Naruto and enjoyed the series. I’m interested in understanding what kind of story Kishimoto intends to tell through Boruto. That part is unclear to me, as it mostly seems like a rehash — but perhaps experience has matured Kishimoto and he’s thought deeply about what should come next.

And who knows. Maybe a monthly release is better for him.

[PatTraverse]

Nah Naruto was objectively bad. You can like it but the lack of quality is really not a question of "level of understanding" or subjective interpretation.

[gyuukarubi]

Nah Naruto was objectively bad. You can like it but the lack of quality is really not a question of "level of understanding" or subjective interpretation.

Your personal opinion on the quality of another’s work is the definition of subjectivity. Naruto has literally grossed over $10 billion in revenue — $1.6 billion of that is from sales of the manga alone and more than the X-Men as an entire media franchise. This is an objective measurement. Just because you do not personally connect to the story does not mean that others have not.

At some point, individuals have to realize that their opinions are simply developed through their frame of reference and subjective tastes. I include myself in this; my opinions are not “objective truth” and I’ve never thought of them as such. But they do inform my perspective on the nature of reality itself.

There is nothing “good” or “bad” — only thinking makes it so. I think, therefore I am. Misc wisdom, etc.

[pariston_hill]

There's no shame in liking bad things or corny things. But objective truths are a thing, and Naruto is objective bad, from betraying the central theme of part one, to the endless Uchiha wank, to make an unbeatable villain to be usurped by a bunny goddess that we had no fucking connection, to sideline every single one of the Konoha 11, to make Naruto ninja Jesus and Sasuke too, to the forced pairings at the end, where only NarutoxHinata and ShikamaruxTemari had any kind one small build up, the the mass murder Obito being called the coolest guy. Yeah, the series was bad.
That said there's nothing that stops you from enjoying it. I enjoyed NnT but I'm aware that the quality went to the shitter at some point of the third arc, subjective opinion can't cloud your objective judgement.

[gyuukarubi]

There's no shame in liking bad things or corny things. But objective truths are a thing, and Naruto is objective bad, from betraying the central theme of part one, to the endless Uchiha wank, to make an unbeatable villain to be usurped by a bunny goddess that we had no fucking connection, to sideline every single one of the Konoha 11, to make Naruto ninja Jesus and Sasuke too, to the forced pairings at the end, where only NarutoxHinata and ShikamaruxTemari had any kind one small build up, the the mass murder Obito being called the coolest guy. Yeah, the series was bad.
That said there's nothing that stops you from enjoying it. I enjoyed NnT but I'm aware that the quality went to the shitter at some point of the third arc, subjective opinion can't cloud your objective judgement.

So this is an example of where your frame of reference plays a key role, my friend. Happy to explain this by briefly going into detail, but I'll admit that I haven't reread Naruto and have not done much of the intellectual work necessary to fully understand every decision made by Kishimoto (though I'm sure that others have).

Something to recognize is that it's literally harder to be published in a Jump magazine than it is to get into Harvard. You're dealing with some real intellectual creatives here. Naruto, though a shonen series, was crafted by an adult — so you have to think about how his mindset shifted/matured over a decade of publication.

When you speak of "betraying the central theme of part one," do you mean how "hard work triumphs over destiny"? Very true — though one could argue that Kishimoto is intending to say that EVERYONE who has made it this far in life has a special ancestor that allowed them to get there. Ancestry is a big part of Naruto and truthfully, I haven't analyzed it thoroughly — but there's a message here that I'm not sure most fans have picked up on. Yes, this ties directly into the Senju and Uchiha legacy as well.

The Uchiha are exceptionally important to the series and I'd love to understand what you disliked about their relevance to the plot.

Kaguya is something that could have been predicted in the early days of Naruto, if one was wise enough. Indeed, much of Naruto connects to Japanese mythology and legend. Because you were raised with a Western frame of reference, it makes sense that it came out of left-field for you. I would argue that some in Kishimoto's core audience may disagree.

The Konoha 11 were great side characters, but they do not necessarily need all of the spotlight — they were Naruto's classmates. They had their roles to play, but they were not the central characters of the story. The world of Naruto is much bigger than that and it makes sense that Kishimoto would want to focus on the most gifted in each country (Gaara, Killer B) rather than those who didn't carry the same ambitions of Naruto/Sasuke.

If pairings were important to you at all in the series, that's more indicative of your own subjective preferences. Adolescent love was never the point of the series — rather, adolescent opinions coming into clash with adulthood is a central part of the story.

Obito was a tragic character through and through. But he was a cool guy. That moment of redemption was intended to save his soul. Much of Naruto is about forgiveness, mercy, and redemption — as the final clash taught us.

So everything that you consider to be "objectively bad" can be refuted with a different frame of reference. Hence, Naruto is not "objectively bad" but "subjectively bad (in your opinion) because of your preferences and frame of reference" :)