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Thread: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

  1. #41
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    Talking about Dory and Broggy, I never forget that they said the weapons of Elbaf can vanquish anything but the red serpent around the world...
    I'm guessing that's the Red Line?

  2. #42

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny B. Decent View Post
    I'm guessing that's the Red Line?
    That's my guess as well, but we just don't now enough to be sure. They mention it briefly just in the chapter that they perform the Hakoku on the island devourer.
    No, I'm not back. I never left. It's just that it has been a long time since I had something to say.

  3. #43
    aka demonicpoodle Kaworu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    That's my guess as well, but we just don't now enough to be sure. They mention it briefly just in the chapter that they perform the Hakoku on the island devourer.
    The Red Line is what you're meant to think it is, but giants have a super long lifespan so maybe there's a legend that's passed down about it being a red serpent, or maybe a giant from a long time ago saw it and it was actually a serpent and he passed that down.

    Whatever it is I don't think it was there hundreds or thousands of years ago, because of the Pangaea references in OP. But it'd also have to conveniently dry up like that and not decompose.

    Could be a metaphor, could eventually be literal, who knows!
    Kaido, the supportive dad villain, subverting "cartoonishly evil villains" of OP.
    Next prediction: "Enies" has more to it than meets the eye
    My proudest prediction: Predicted Imu before he showed up


  4. #44

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    Big Mom does not need to to directly to the rooftop yet. Her children causing havok in the dome while she goes after Kaido's poneglyph makes perfect sense. I also think she will be defeated by the combined Straw Hats in an Oars-like fight, while Luffy takes care of Kaido.
    We already had that. It was the Whole Cake Arc.

    Now the focus should shift to Kaido's forces, i.e. the people who just got introduced. Not the people who were introduced +100 chapters ago and whose powers we mostly known about. I'm not interested in seing Daifuku swinging his genie around or Perospero making more candy. I've already seen that enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    But I don't think she's leaving the arc. She's here to stay. In a narrative sense, removing BM now would make this already long saga even longer by leaving all of her plot hooks dangling. IMO, once we leave Wano, we will not be worrying about Yonko anymore.
    No one is saying she's leaving the arc. Rather, she will be involved from afar, trying to follow Onigashima. Conveniently, her ship should be right there in the sea. And from there, she will get mad and tell her children to follow the skull.

    Also, all the plot hooks involving Big Mom are the ones involving Elbaf. She has little to do with Wano.

    Meanwhile, we barely what Kaido's deal is or the story of his family, or whateber opening the borders of Wano means, and the Scabbards, and Onigashima, and Vegapunk and the Numbers... We have too many plot hooks in Wano to care about Elbaf's.

  5. #45
    Discovered Stowaway Zeorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    But if the actual Buddhism realm is Naraka, why call the chapter Naraku. I guess in Japanese it probably works better that way when Kaido's attack or something, but in English Ragnaraka would sound fine.
    Well Naraka isn't a Japanese word. Also, like I explained before, Naraku has multiple meanings, and that is probably why Oda chose it. It isn't like he explicitly chose it because of Naraka or else he could have called it Naraka.

    I read that Ragu means to drag or lug something around. Does it also mean to drag them to hell?
    Well Ragu doesn't mean that, but the kanji (chinese character) used for that part of the word is the one used for "hiku" which generally means "to pull, to tug" and things of that nature. They also use it the same way we say "catch a cold."

    Mangakas love to give attacks English or other western language names but they also write out the name in kanji which essentially describes the nature of the attack or provides a second meaning.

    In this case the name was essentially Ragnaraku but the kanji could imply pulling down to naraka or pulling down to rock bottom.

    What makes things even harder is that these Chinese characters will share the same pronunciations and meanings across multiple words but change based on what noun they are interacting with or what meaning you want to convey.

    So for instance the word you use for "pluck a guitar string" is also "hiku" but the kanji is different. In this same way, "hiku" shares a similar meaning with a 3rd kanji that means "to move back, draw back, recede." This 3rd kanji also has a unique pronunciation that gives it a different meaning which can mean "to withdraw (from a superior)" or "to concede."

    There are a lot of meanings and connections that can be made if you have the knowledge and think there are connections to be made. Oda probably isn't going to come out and say "this literally has only 1 meaning and everything else is wrong" and that is why fans enjoy guessing at what Oda intended and if there are hidden meanings in things.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaworu View Post
    Yeah, though interestingly they have different names, the Giants' one is Hakoku, the dual Yonkou one is apparently Hakai. Still a clear reference visually, I think it'll all tie up neatly at Elbaf.
    These are essentially the same attacks, the "Ha" is the same, but the "koku" from the Giants means "country" and the "kai" from the Emperors means "sea."

    If I were to explain the Giants' attack could be "Champions/Titleholders of their country" and the Emperors' attack is "Rulers/Conquerors of the sea," so it is at least a couple steps or levels higher than the Giants' attack.
    Avatar Artist: Aapo Niemi

  6. #46

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    People have repeatedly expected Big Mom to be out of the picture.
    You just have to follow the simple logic that dictates if there's no one enough to defeat her, then she's not going down.

    Kuma in Thriller Bark, Borsalino in Sabaody, Fujitora in Dressrosa, it happens all the time.

    And I can tell you know this by the fact that you haven't been able to elaborate a credible, possible, satisfactory and rational way Big Mom would be defeated in all these months you've been suggesting it.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    You just have to follow the simple logic that dictates if there's no one enough to defeat her, then she's not going down.

    Kuma in Thriller Bark, Borsalino in Sabaody, Fujitora in Dressrosa, it happens all the time.

    And I can tell you know this by the fact that you haven't been able to elaborate a credible, possible, satisfactory and rational way Big Mom would be defeated in all these months you've been suggesting it.
    I’ve already said many times BM will be defeated by the crew in an Oars-like fight...

    But I don’t need to predict details, those are obviously hard to pin down. The general direction of the story is enough.

    Unlike every example you used there, BM’s presence in Wano is neither a mid-arc complication nor an unsurmountable obstacle. Her presence here was carefully set up over the years. Remember this when the arc is over in one year: She’s going down.
    No, I'm not back. I never left. It's just that it has been a long time since I had something to say.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    I’ve already said many times BM will be defeated by the crew in an Oars-like fight...

    But I don’t need to predict details, those are obviously hard to pin down. The general direction of the story is enough.

    Unlike every example you used there, BM’s presence in Wano is neither a mid-arc complication nor an unsurmountable obstacle. Her presence here was carefully set up over the years. Remember this when the arc is over in one year: She’s going down.
    She will probably go down, but not necessarily in a direct fight.

    For example, if Onigashima gets redirected to fall over her during the fight with Kaido. That would easily defeat her and count as a loss.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    I could see Big Mom being gone for a longer period than Hawkins it's been.

    And how is Big Mom going for the RP? it doesn't seem like even Kaido knows where it is.

    __________________________________________________ _____________________

    also, I'm thinking Jean Bart and the others will be the ones unexpetedly saving Linlin, or O-lin most likely.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Kaido looked pretty cool with a dragon bottom and man-beast torso. Gave him kind of a genie vibe, which worked suprisingly well. And battle wise he seem to be approaching or already be at that stage where he has admitted to himself that there is a chance of losing on the table. The Croc starts using tools stage of the fight ain't far off now and then it's on to -How can your eyes still be alive aaaah Luff fist to the face time.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    I could see Big Mom being gone for a longer period than Hawkins it's been.

    And how is Big Mom going for the RP? it doesn't seem like even Kaido knows where it is.

    __________________________________________________ _____________________

    also, I'm thinking Jean Bart and the others will be the ones unexpetedly saving Linlin, or O-lin most likely.
    Imagine if Big Mom became one of the Heart Pirates (she even has a heart tattoo).

  12. #52

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Kaido looked pretty cool with a dragon bottom and man-beast torso. Gave him kind of a genie vibe, which worked suprisingly well. And battle wise he seem to be approaching or already be at that stage where he has admitted to himself that there is a chance of losing on the table. The Croc starts using tools stage of the fight ain't far off now and then it's on to -How can your eyes still be alive aaaah Luff fist to the face time.
    That caught my eye as well, if you zoom a bit you can actually still see Kaidou's legs. Oda just drew them perfectly to create the half dragon effect.

    When Kaidou revealed his half-beast form the other chapter and wasn't a big fan but after this chapter it really grew on me, in motion it looks really cool.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    There is a pun between Kaido's Rag-Naraku and chapter title Naraku.

    1) Ragnarok means the end of the world of gods and men in Norse mythology.
    2) In Kabuki play, Naraku means an area underneath the stage". It fits Big Mom's situation who falls off from the stage called Onigashima.

    For reference, here is an English website that explains Naraku in Kabuki play in detail.
    https://www2.ntj.jac.go.jp/dglib/mod...p?entryid=1231

  14. #54

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by sandman View Post
    2) In Kabuki play, Naraku means an area underneath the stage". It fits Big Mom's situation who falls off from the stage called Onigashima.
    But since its Luffy the one recieveing it, could it mean he's going to fall down?

  15. #55
    Discovered Stowaway astagadragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    To me, this chapter show the vast difference on Oda's handling of Zoro and Sanji. Zoro continues to being badass meanwhile Sanji is reduced to confusingly running around...

    Zoro already going on the big stage, fighting against 2 Yonkos at once AND tanking their big attack. Zoro even managed to cut Kaido once!

    Kid and Killer already contribute much on this raid. Chopper damaging Queen, Franky crashing Big Mom, Robin rolling Big Mom. Hell, even Tama of all people was proving herself to be useful (ignoring her way of helping tho)!

    IMO Sanji must defeat at least King to restore his honor. He's handled very pathetically these days...
    "I want to know if it is a crime to live as you are, when you are different from others." - Kotomine Kirei

  16. #56

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Cute, classic-feeling colour spread with the whole crew together. Presumably, from the architecture, the trees and the very Japanese statues, this one's taking place in Ringo. I feel like it's fairly rare to be able to suscribe a colour spread theme to a specifc known location like this, but I can't be bothered running the numbers to see if that's true. Love the outfits for this one especially. Robin's leather jacket and jeans combo is great, the horns on Brook's hood are amazing, and Franky's "CYBORG HENTAI" speaks for itself.

    Not sure about using the Japanese Naraku as the title for this one. I can see the reference to the Buddhist Naraka, but it's not the most intuitive thing in the world to research. The wikipedia page for Naraku is only the sixth result in google, and even that's a disambiguation page. How many people, particularly among the casual readers, are actually going to pick this one up at all? I get that we're in the One Piece version of Japan, but I think at least shifting it to the better-known Buddhist name would have made the reference more accessible.


    The spread of Orochi losing all his heads to a combo attack from the Scabbards is something I expected his arc to end on, and certainly not what I thought would happen this soon. As of this chapter we're only seven heads down out of eight, so there's obviously more to come, but now I've got no clue what Oda's endgame for both him and the Scabbards is.


    The scabbards also depart into the burning part of the castle fairly casually, and we can see the Beasts Pirates fighting the fire, so it's hard to say how much of a factor that's going to be going forward. Interesting that we're getting another Scabbard set up for a solo fight as well. There can't possibly be enough opponents left for all of them to have one, right?


    Combo attacks and tag-in-tag-out fighting are what I'm living for in the rooftop clash, so this was a great chapter. I do think, however, that Kaido and Big Mom's combo attack suffers a little bit of poor conveyance. It's hard to say how much of what made the attack so impossible to dodge was speed and how much as size. It seems like it's Law's teleportation that saves them in the end, but given that it's essentially instant, speed shouldn't be an issue, right? I could accept that it takes him a moment to spread a room further than the radius of the attack, but we don't see him setting that up. I usually don't complain about "talking is a free action" as a shonen trope, but it's definitely had an impact on my attempt to visualise the action here.


    It's also hard to tell what kind of attack is actually being used. Is it a flying slash-style air pressure shockwave? Haki? A miscellaneous energy thing, generated in the same way Luffy and others make fire with no better explanation? The similar attack used by Dorry and Broggy on Little Garden seemed like just air, but Big Mom's version on Tottoland got an interesting purple filter in the colour manga. Unlike the anime, the colour manga doesn't usually add that kind of flourish on its own, so I consider it worth taking note of. Oda uses the kind of screentones he would for a bright light in this chapter, even though he didn't in Big Mom's Tottoland version.
    Spoiler:





    What I do think is cool is how easily Kaido matches Big Mom's move. She was raised in Elbaf, so it makes sense for her to use giant fighting styles, but where did Kaido learn it? From her while they were in Rocks? On his own journey to the giants' homeland? Through his apparent ancient giant heritage? He also references the Norse Raknarok in his later attack, and we all know the giants are the Viking-inspired people of One Piece. There's so much we don't know about this man!


    Luffy goes right back on the offensive, and Kaido... dodges? That's interesting. It not new information that the three captains are capable of harming Kaido, we learned that in the opening chapters of this fight. What this really tells us is that the damage being done is starting to add up. At the end of the last chapter, captains were talking like they'd been landing a lot of hits offscreen but couldn't tell if they were dealing lasting damage. Which means Kaido's been straight up taking the hits and acting like they're nothing, but if he's dodging now, he's starting to feel like he can't afford to keep doing that! So before the inevitable complaints of the fight ending too quickly and too easily for the alliance, here's our first clue that the boss's health pool is draining.

    I almost feel compelled to wonder from this point how much of Kaido's reputation as an invincible creature, only damagable with super advanced techniques, is an intentionally cultivated image, created by no-selling big hits whether or not they actually do damage. I'm not denying that his scales are tough, but at the same time his fall from Balloon Terminal rattled his insides enough to cause a nasty headache, so who knows when and if he was taking chip damage from things like Luffy's original Gear Four salvo.


    I said last week that I thought Kaido's hybrid form being underwhelming was largely a presentation issue, and this chapter has absolutely proved me right. I love the way he moves in his skirmish with Luffy here. His musceleman body coils and twists like the dragon form, and the tail whipping around behind him has a great effect on the apparent speed of his movements. The unhinged jaw for the mini blast breath has a great, truly demonic look as well. This is the Oda-style motion and posing I was hoping to see!


    The play to remove Big Mom from the fight is definitely going to go down as a highlight. It's a great sequence that shows the strengths of the fighters and the weaknesses of the enemy perfectly. It's something for anyone who thinks One Piece fights have become powerlevel spam following the introduction of haki. Our boys aren't just fighting hard, they're fighting smart, and you love to see it. (Although, even if Law can't teleport Big Mom or Kaido around, this maybe raises the question of why he hasn't been moving her homies away from her more often, or taking the club out of Kaido's hand.) Zeus in a box all but confirms his return to Nami's hands. When Big Mom first took him back it became questionable if Oda was going to let him stay part of her arsenal long-term, but I don't think there's any more doubt. Zoro confirms himself for Smash. It's meant to be a game character only zone, but he got a little lost. Killer's bit with Napoleon looks a little ridiculous. We couldn't have the sword fighting on its own or something to let the guy look a little cooler? Kid takes a hell of a hit, and Big Mom goes flying.


    She seems to think there's only sea underneath, which doesn't track with what we saw of Mount Fuji a couple of chapters ago. Maybe she was paying too close attention to the battle to be on top of the island's location, or maybe this is jut going to be another thing like the Noah falling on Fishman Island where it's as close to its target as it needs to be in any given chapter.


    Hard to say where Big Mom's plot goes from here. If there's really just sea below, I can see that being it for her in Wano. I'd be very surprised to see her left without a clear defeat to menace another arc. Hitting the surface could result in another O-Lin episode. Or she could just not fall at all. She made a flying carpet homie for Pudding, so who knows what she could do with her kimono with some quick thinking and a fragment of soul.


    I hope we don't cut away from the rooftop too quickly next week. I want to see Kaido's reaction to Big Mom's fall, and what Oda can do with him in this new form in a focussed five on one. This is great. I'm living for my weekly One Piece fix lately.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by astagadragon View Post
    To me, this chapter show the vast difference on Oda's handling of Zoro and Sanji. Zoro continues to being badass meanwhile Sanji is reduced to confusingly running around...

    Zoro already going on the big stage, fighting against 2 Yonkos at once AND tanking their big attack. Zoro even managed to cut Kaido once!

    Kid and Killer already contribute much on this raid. Chopper damaging Queen, Franky crashing Big Mom, Robin rolling Big Mom. Hell, even Tama of all people was proving herself to be useful (ignoring her way of helping tho)!

    IMO Sanji must defeat at least King to restore his honor. He's handled very pathetically these days...
    Sanji's best moments always come after a period of absence or defeat, thought.

    Mr. Prince.
    Gotcha.
    The Hunter.
    Closing the Justice Gates.

    Sanji was put aside for the whole Little Garden (left out of all fights!) and Drum (spine hurt) arcs, but that enabled his Mr. Prince moment later on.

    That's pretty much what you can expect to happen with him again. When he comes back, he will change the whole situation around.
    No, I'm not back. I never left. It's just that it has been a long time since I had something to say.

  18. #58

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Almost forgot: love the little shuriken dot exclamation marks in the sound effects surrounding the Raizo and Fukurokuju confrontation. Those had better still be there when the SFX get redrawn for the volume release.

    They're usually pretty good with that kind of thing these days, but I just want it out there that I've noticed this one and I'll be looking out for it.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
    Sanji's best moments always come after a period of absence or defeat, thought.

    Mr. Prince.
    Gotcha.
    The Hunter.
    Closing the Justice Gates.

    Sanji was put aside for the whole Little Garden (left out of all fights!) and Drum (spine hurt) arcs, but that enabled his Mr. Prince moment later on.

    That's pretty much what you can expect to happen with him again. When he comes back, he will change the whole situation around.
    That already happened though. It was rescuing Momonosuke. He disappeared for 7-8 chapters.

    This just seems like typical Oda juggling screentime. The individual moments are just all spread out when you have 10 protagonists plus allies. Sanji has only been missing for 2-3 chapters.

    I mean, Jinbe's last big moment was in 998, with only a few tidbits here and there.
    Last edited by King Cannon; April 4th, 2021 at 06:30 PM.

  20. #60
    Discovered Stowaway Zeorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,009: Naraku

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    But since its Luffy the one recieveing it, could it mean he's going to fall down?
    The chapter title was Naraku and the kabuki meaning refers to Big Mom's exit.

    Naraku was also used in the portmanteau with Ragnarok but in that case it was probably using Naraku's other meanings of "Hell" or "rock bottom" or "the end of the line."
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