General Devil Fruit Discussion

[Shishou]

I was thinking. We all know a Devil Fruit's weakness is that you are a hammer in the ocean and can not swim.

But could it be that only Ocean/Sea Water is affective? And normal water, such as drinking/bathing water is perfectly normal?

Your thoughts?

[sgamer82]

Dunno, the recent chapters suggest that any kind of submergion has a weakening effect. Ocean/seawater may have the worst effect, but any water can drown a Devil Fruit user.

[Shishou]

How have the recent chapters said that?

Calipha was in a bath, and seemed fine. Luffy drank enough water to submerge himself in, and it has no negative affect.

I can't really think of any incident where non-salt water has negatively affected a DF user.

[sgamer82]

Well, Calipha didn't seem to deny that being in water made her weak. She just needled Nami by pointint out that her helplessness didn't matter as Nami couldn't do anything about it.

The Water Luffy point is something. Though I personally wouldn't think drinking water counts as being in water.

also, what about the White White Sea? We don't know if it's salty or not, but it did have the same effect on Luffy and Chopper as regular seawater.

[luffy316]

In a recent SBS, Oda explained that any body of water can do the trick. That is, a bathtub of fresh water would leave a devil's fruit user vulnerable. However, water flowing downward has no affect, so showers are fine and "half-body" baths are okay.

[Shishou]

Well, I figure the cloud is made from evaporated Sea? :p

In a recent SBS, Oda explained that any body of water can do the trick. That is, a bathtub of fresh water would leave a devil's fruit user vulnerable. However, water flowing downward has no affect, so showers are fine and "half-body" baths are okay.

Ah, well if Oda confirmed it is all water. Then case closed :P

[Luna-chan]

Well, that clears up my thoughts. I thought it was just sea or lake water. This especially makes Califa's action have a better point.

[sgamer82]

Yeah. She was messing with Nami's head and demoralizing her. I've put myself in a helpless position, but it's not like YOU can do anything about it.

[Ubiq]

also, what about the White White Sea? We don't know if it's salty or not, but it did have the same effect on Luffy and Chopper as regular seawater.

The White White Sea contains trace amounts of seastone, which is why it acts like the Blue Sea. Oda seems to have created a bit of a continuity error lately with this though as seastone didn't use to cancel out powers, but weakened the user to the point that they couldn't use them.

Lately, it's been portrayed as simply cancelling the power.

[joekido the Second]

I wonder what happens when a user dive in a water that has no seastones and salt? If the White White Sea has no seastone then will Luffy and Chopper be able to swim?

[Shishou]

The White White Sea contains trace amounts of seastone, which is why it acts like the Blue Sea. Oda seems to have created a bit of a continuity error lately with this though as seastone didn't use to cancel out powers, but weakened the user to the point that they couldn't use them.

Lately, it's been portrayed as simply cancelling the power.

Actually, I have a theory on that.

Luffy we know got super weak when touching sea stone. While robin just lacks use of her power.... I think it affects different types of fruits differently.

Luffy's whole body is rubber, and seastone can not make his body non-rubber. Since it is ALWAYS rubber. Not a thing he turns on and off. So his whole body is being weakened, since his whole body is his devil fruit.

While Robin is normal, and uses his powers to sprout limbs. So it cancels the actual power.

[Jonas22]

http://arlongpark.net/Manga/SBS/41

Chapter 398.

Or (the source):

http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen...chapter398.txt

(did anyone ask stephen for permission for the sbs tl's, I wonder out loud?) Stephen, if not, please PM me.

[Ubiq]

While Robin is normal, and uses his powers to sprout limbs. So it cancels the actual power.

Problem is: we see Robin use her power in the presence of seastone in Skypiea when they catch Usopp after he falls through the White Sea.

This is in spite of the fact that there is enough seastone present in seacloud to make Luffy immediately sink upon contact. I mean, yeah, that happens in the White White Sea, but there's no indication that the two seas are any different in nature.

Oda has recently said that any form of submersion will shut down a Devil Fruit, but that falling water won't hurt them; personally, I think that makes things one helluvalot more complicated than simply differentiating between saltwater and freshwater, especially since it raises the question of why a river would hurt somebody but a waterfall wouldn't. That and the fact that Luffy had no problems at all with the baths in Alabasta.

So, there's a few continuity problems here.

[Deicide]

I see no continuity issues. Let us see it right, okay?

- Oda says that if you have more than half of your body in water, then you lose your powers. If you are covered in water, then you lose your strength and can't swin.

- Exactly what seastone does is uncertain. It is like the sea in the way that it can clearly cancel out powers, except that you only need to touch it (you do not need to be touching a large quantity of seastone).

- In Luffy's case, seastone seem to weaken him. This does not seem to be a issue to Buggy, Alvida and Enel, who were also touched by seastone in the story. I have the same theory as Shishou: since Luffy's powers can't be turned off, he loses his ability to control properly his body, since his body is his power.

- White-white sea is not made entirely of seastone, but has enough seastone particles to behave exactly like the sea. When Luffy and Robin used their powers to save Usopp, neither of them was submerged or had more than half of their bodies within it, and as such their powers are not canceled. So, yes, Luffy could save someone from drowning (or falling from the sky) by strecthing his arm into water, this in no way will cancel his ability or weaken him.

- In the bath at Alabasta, Luffy never used his abilities, and we never saw him with more than half of his body covered. As such, the little weakness he probably felt was not enough to make any importance to those scenes (which were basically comical scenes, with no enemies around).

- Calipha clearly states in chapter 407 that the bath left her without powers and weakened. But she still can move around and easily leaves the bath, regaining her strength and abilities immediatly. This is enough to show why the Alabastan baths did not had a great effect over Luffy.

[Jonas22]

Luffy's head was stretched up from the sea floor in the arlong arc. If his fruit abilities were cancelled, wouldn't that mean that he would cease being rubber? If that's not "how it works" (and it seems it isn't), then him and Robin should have been able to rescue Usopp as happened.

Even if you don't agree, a quick glance at the SBS shows that continuity isn't Oda's strong point :)

[IT'S A LION!]

No, to affect Luffy, the sea water simply prevents him from moving the part of his body that is submerged. Luffy is different from many DF users.

[Voodzik]

Well it seems that your ability to conciously use powers go away, but innate physical traits (like luffy's stretchyness) remain. luffy was unable to stretch himself remember, his body simply remained stretchy.

[IT'S A LION!]

Right.
Interesting how Aokiji can stick his hand into the water and still use his power on it. I wonder if it would be possible for a DF user like, say, Buggy to send one of his hands underwater (although his conversation with Luffy in Port Town would seem to contradict that).

[Deicide]

the sea water simply prevents him from moving the part of his body that is submerged

Interesting how Aokiji can stick his hand into the water and still use his power on it.

Oda himself said in the latest SBS that the power only goes away when at least half of your body is underwater. I don't get where did you get the idea that they can't use their powers with a part of the body that is submerged. So far there are a lot of evidence that Luffy, Robin and Aokiji can use their powers while touching water (or cloud sea), and no evidence that touching water prevents them from using their powers.

We can have three conclusions right now, after the most recent SBS's and chapters:

- A Devil Fruit user can use his powers while touching water. They can even use their powers bellow water, as long as they have less than half their bodies within a water body.

- They lose their powers (or, in cases such as Luffy, lose control of their powers) when they have at least half of their bodies covered in water. They seem to be able to move (although they are weakened) in this case. (Calipha's recent action at the bathtub is an indication of this).

- If fully covered (or perhaps almost totally covered) in water, they lose all of their strength and can't move at all (or can't use their strength, actually. They seem to be able to make some movement, like Luffy covering his mouth to hold air after being tossed to the sea by Arlong).

[Aldrich]

I agree with Deicide's points, except for two things:

-Seastone clearly weakened Ener physically. He starts sweating, shaking and ends up on his knees before Wiper can harm him with the Reject Dial. There's clearly a continuity problem here with the handcuffs used at Enies Lobby, now maybe there's different types of Seastone, or maybe it depends from the amount of Seastone in the cuffs, but Oda will have to justify how Robin can move and walk normally with it.

-I don't think Devil Fruit users lose their powers when submerged, they just lose their ability to use them willingly. Luffy remaining rubber is the best proof of that. For ex, I'm sure if Buggy was submerged and say, some pirate goes underwater and beheads him, that wouldn't kill him, and if he was rescued and brought back to the surface in two parts he'd just put his head back in place and act as if nothing happend.