General Devil Fruit Discussion

[Kenechi]

Maybe because Enel is always electricity? Even when he got hit when he was sleeping, he still turned into electricity. That is just what he is. Kinda like Buggy, Buggy can't turn his power on and off, because Zoro cut him, but his body just turned into seperate pieces. His fruit is similar to Luffy's. So, I guess I agree with Aldrich. Robin is sweating as well when she is wearing the handcuffs. It seems that it if effecting her, but not like it effects Luffy.

[k-os]

How have the recent chapters said that?

Calipha was in a bath, and seemed fine. Luffy drank enough water to submerge himself in, and it has no negative affect.

I can't really think of any incident where non-salt water has negatively affected a DF user.

After this issue, I don't think Califa wa in a bath full of water but mainly her own soap suds. The bath had some water which weakened her but no affect.

Also isn't the human body composed mainly of water? So I guess any water internally has no affect.

[d.Lughie]

maybe because its a cuff.. cuffs are meant for the user to be able to bring along.. (to walk with).. so the amount of seastone used or the density is not as much as the jail bars!?

[Deicide]

Maybe seastone is just like having half the body submerged. You lose the ability to control the power and lose some strength, but can still move around.

[Malintex_Terek]

Methinks full submersion causes paralysis for all Devil Fruit users, but close proximity simply prevents the usage of powers. Since Luffy's entire body is his power, denying him usage of it would entail paralysis even when in close proximity to something like Seastone.

The only problem I have with this is that Daz Bones looked like he was able to move around freely in jail, but I'm not certain if he can "become" steel or if he is "always" steel.

[captain usopp]

I think there may be no definite answer. Maybe the science of DF's changes to Oda's convenience for the sake of the story?

Also, I thought it would be fun to bring up this point in this thread as well.
What would happen if you ate a DF that changed you into a half fish person. (like chopper) That would be kind of unfair. Any comments on this, I got none.

[Dusticore]

The only problem I have with this is that Daz Bones looked like he was able to move around freely in jail, but I'm not certain if he can "become" steel or if he is "always" steel.

Mr. 1 is always steel. His secondary ability is to form his body into blades.

[Malintex_Terek]

A note: The "White" sea isn't really a body of water, but a cloud. The "White White" sea is also a cloud, and probably just a dense as the "White" sea, but there's a bottom and therefore could be the "resting" body of water.

Mr. 1 is always steel. His secondary ability is to form his body into blades.

I guess even a paralysed Devil Fruit user is more dangerous than common criminals nowadays.

[Doskoi-Pandaman]

then if direct submersion is a cause for handicap why was it that luffy could take a bath in alabasta? maybe its more of a mental thing, I wonder how oda-ology would explain this phenom

[Deicide]

Luffy was never submerged in the Alabastan baths. We see him and Usopp playing over water (which probably only reached to his knees) and they both under the waterfall (remember that falling water, like Waterfalls, rain, splashes from waves and a Shower, have no effect on a Devil Fruit user).

[IT'S A LION!]

I think there may be no definite answer. Maybe the science of DF's changes to Oda's convenience for the sake of the story?

Also, I thought it would be fun to bring up this point in this thread as well.
What would happen if you ate a DF that changed you into a half fish person. (like chopper) That would be kind of unfair. Any comments on this, I got none.

This brings up something that's been bugging me.
What if a fish-man ate a Devil Fruit? Would he still sink to the bottom of a body of water? But he could still breathe underwater...right?!? AAAGH! :wacko:

[sgamer82]

I think a fair point is what d.Lughie said. Seastone handcuffs are probably made to have a lesser effect than Seastone cages or even pure Seastone. Perhaps it simply contains less Seastone or there's something in how its refined. Though if the Baroque Works arc is an indicator, the cuffs don't have the paralysis effect, but do suppress the powers.

Mr. 1's the hardcase here. Perhaps he is still steel, but the cuffs prevent the forming of blades. Likely meaning the cuffs may suppress conscious control of the powers, at least in Paramecias and Zoans. Logias would be tricky, as they could still concievably get the cuffs off by "cutting off" their hands (since it seems transforming to take blows is an unconscious act, but I could be wrong).

I dunno, I'm just making stuff up as I go so I could be way off.

[Monkey Spirit]

No, his gulls, like the rest of his body, would stop moving after he was sufficiently submerged.

As to Seastone, I think it all depends on the quantity, a small ammount of seastone will block a DF user's powers, as the quantity increases the ability user begins to loose control over his body until he ultimately faints.

As for an explanation, it probably emits some sort of radiation or pulse that disables the mutagen agents of the fruit, something on the lines of reversible protein precipitation. Proteins are very complex molecules which depend largely on their environmental conditions to be able to function correctly. If there's a change in acidity or temperature, a protein can change its structure and stop working (this is what happens when you fry an egg and why high fevers are dangerous).

This process is sometimes reversible, that is, if the temperature returns to normal or the pH recovers its former value, the protein will regain its structure and recommence action. You could exposition to Seastone causes the mutant proteins to precipitate, this starts by blocking the power and can lead to the cells dying if enough DF proteins stop working, which is why DF users exposed to enough Seastone will begin feeling weak and faint; the changes a DF causes are so radical that I guess they play a vital role in the user's metabolism.

Agh, my inner shounen scientist suddenly took control over my body and I couldn't stop him from typing all that. I hope it made sense.

[Jonas22]

I've never liked how vague the difference was between Paramecia and Logia.

Is the difference that the Logia user can control the "element" in question, like the way that Smoker controls smoke?

Well, Mr. 3 wasn't a Logia, but he seemed to control wax that was outside of his body.

Is the difference that the Logia user's body BECOMES the element? If so, there are paramecia fruits that act in the same way (luffy's of course, but mr 1's, mr 5's, and some others). These fruits probably differentiate two classes of paramecia; ones which alter the body material entirely (those mentioned) and ones that allow some power (valentine, golden week, robin, buggy, alvida, etc)

So the only difference I can see really is degree. Luffy or Mr 1 can't melt themselves to put themselves back together, although any of the Logia users were able to. This makes it hard to describe the fruits in a way that gets this across without making them sound the same.

About the seastone cuffs thing, I would think that they would simply nullify the effects of the fruit (except the curse) entirely. There's no need to apply any "logic" to this; that'd just be "how they work" (much like you can't apply logic to denden mushi or lots of other things; they just exist because oda thought them up). If luffy's body was still rubber, or Crocodile's still sand, for instance, the cuffs would be pretty useless against them.

[Malintex_Terek]

From the spoiler topic.

1) Create (ability to produce logia element from ones' body).
2) Control (able to shape, form, & apply that power).
3) Become (ability to passively and autonomously become element).

Mr.3 isn't really a quasi-logia, though he satisfies the "create" and "control" criteria, which are unusual as most paramecia have the "become" and "control" aspects. A user must satisfy all three criteria to be a logia user.

Luffy: Rubber
Become/Control

Daz Bones: Steel
Become/Control

Mr.3: Wax
Control/Create

Califa: Soap
Control/Create

Califa falls into the same category of dualitic paramecia Mr.3 is in; she can't "become" soap, but she can encase herself in it. Mr.3 cannot "become" wax, but he can encase himself in it.

For the other users:

Buggy: Become/Control
Alvida: Become
Mr.5: Become/Control
Miss Valentine: Control
Nico Robin: Create/Control
Wapol: Become/Control
Bon Clay: Control
Doublefinger: Become/Control
Hina: Become
Bellamy: Control
Foxy: Create
Blueno: Create

[shen_ron]

We all know that there can be only one Devil Fruit at a time. And here goes my question. Brook had the power of "returning from dead", is there a possibility that we may find another DF like Brook's? After all, he died and that DF should reborn (or whatever word)...

[Nuzzie]

It was more or less dormant while he was alive, now that he's dead he's just like all the other fruit users. I would guess that it won't be "reborn" until he dies again.

[Emperor Time]

I don't think the Devil Fruit will be reborn if it can be reborn unless Brook dies again and this time for good.

[*Meh*]

We all know that there can be only one Devil Fruit at a time

Somehow, I envisioned somebody beheading Brook and absorbing his DF power in a miniature lightning storm.

[Gomu Gomu no Baka]

brooke's still a hammer so the df is still active its probably whats keeping alive and breathing.

oh wait he dosnt breathe, he has no lungs Yohohoho.