Japanese language

[kyaserine]

Can anyone please explain the usage of だろう in this sentence:

お前は船大工じゃねェだろう！！！ウソップ！！！

Because Luffy could just have said ～じゃねェよ！or just plain ～じゃねェ！and the meaning will be the same, right?

My friends and I were discussing the usage of だろう when I brought this up. We were only able to speculate since we've only learned the basic use of the word. XP

本当にありがとうございます！ ^^;

[Lobolover]

I have a sort of a question-there has been recently some dissing of the 7 on NF,and I would like to know how you would say "four armed militairy seas" .

[Mr. Evil]

Can anyone please explain the usage of だろう in this sentence:

お前は船大工じゃねェだろう！！！ウソップ！！！

Because Luffy could just have said ～じゃねェよ！or just plain ～じゃねェ！and the meaning will be the same, right?

My friends and I were discussing the usage of だろう when I brought this up. We were only able to speculate since we've only learned the basic use of the word. XP

本当にありがとうございます！ ^^;

Well, since だろう is usually used for expressing a sort of question, the meaning is slightly different. I'd translate that sentence as something like;

"You aren't a shipwright, are you!?"

[SaiyaJedi]

Well, since だろう is usually used for expressing a sort of question, the meaning is slightly different. I'd translate that sentence as something like;

"You aren't a shipwright, are you!?"

Adding, it's a particular application of "darou" (normally indicative of a supposition or assumption) that makes Luffy's statement ("you're not a shipwright") into a rhetorical question (", are you!?"), since it implies that, not only does Luffy already know the answer, but he is trying to get Usopp to see his point and realize that he's not qualified to make judgments about the Merry's seaworthiness / repair her competently.

[kyaserine]

I see. I was thinking about the same thing but when I checked Stephen's scripts, the line was translated as "You're not a shipwright!" So I got a bit confused as to what だろう is for. >.< But I get the point now. Cheers! ^^

[Meowch]

Can anyone recommend a good electronic dictionary? People seem to favor the ones made by Canon and Sharp. Most of them are geared towards Japanese people learning English, so I wonder how useful they'll be to me...

I don't know how to go about choosing a good one. Help?

[DartG]

Bump.

Anyways, I've been meaning to get a book. I seen the list, but which one personally do you think is the absolute BEST book to get for studying help?

Started Hiragana, not hard at all of course. Learned to write a few words, but Im' at the point where I feel absolutely stupid as to how I can't tell if this is right or not. School isn't till January, but I would like to know something before I go. Which is why I've been studying.

watashi wa..　
わたし (わ) <-----Is this right?

And to answer the above, even if it may not be useful anymore or even a bit to late. I've heard that Canon Wordpress was a preferred one to get. Maybe even Casios

Also, does anyone recommend a good ds game to practice my hiragana/katakana? I've been told Anpaman, but has anyone here used it yet?

[Mr. Evil]

You have わたし right, but the particle "wa" is written with は (which is otherwise prounounced "ha") instead of わ.

This is a very timely bump, as I also have a question, since I'm planning on going to Japan for a vacation soon.

For anyone who came to Japan after learning the language, about what level of language understanding is sufficient to get by? I mean for reading signs, texts, etc.?

I've been studying the language for about nine months now, and while I'm confident in my grammar, I usually have a harder time with kanji vocabulary. Is there any kind of "test" to know whether I'm ready to go to Japan?

Thanks in advance.

[Hyrrokkin]

You have わたし right, but the particle "wa" is written with は (which is otherwise prounounced "ha") instead of わ.

This is a very timely bump, as I also have a question, since I'm planning on going to Japan for a vacation soon.

For anyone who came to Japan after learning the language, about what level of language understanding is sufficient to get by? I mean for reading signs, texts, etc.?

I've been studying the language for about nine months now, and while I'm confident in my grammar, I usually have a harder time with kanji vocabulary. Is there any kind of "test" to know whether I'm ready to go to Japan?

Thanks in advance.

Personally I don't think there's any real time. You'd have to know some kanji though and at least the main places so you don't go to China or something when traveling around ^^;

I think there's got to be some tourist guide though, somewhere, which would have explanations for most signs. Also for specific cities, you should be able to get information at a tourist information center, and sometimes you can get a map of the city and/or naming of the main places and how they're marked etc.

So yeah, I don't think there's really any specific time, just when you feel confident in yourself going there.

Oh and for the future, my personal opinion about languages and travelling is that vocabulary is SO MUCH BETTER to have than correct grammar, even if it helps. You would understand "My John is name" (maybe with a little time and a repeat or two) but if you don't know how to say "My name is", you're pretty screw'd. (Or "How do I get to..." etc)

:3

[SaiyaJedi]

Can anyone recommend a good electronic dictionary? People seem to favor the ones made by Canon and Sharp. Most of them are geared towards Japanese people learning English, so I wonder how useful they'll be to me...

I don't know how to go about choosing a good one. Help?

The one I use is a Canon Wordtank V30, which is primarily aimed at Japanese high school students. (The current equivalent model is the V35, I believe.) It uses the Genius J->E and E->J dictionaries, Daijirin as its main Japanese dictionary, and Kanjigen for explanations of kanji, plus Obunsha dictionary of Classical Japanese. I think it's quite useful overall, especially since you can set the menus to English while you're still learning the ropes, but some of the functions (Oxford Learner's Dictionary in Simple English, English Grammar) are obviously not going to be of much use to you as a native speaker. Other people I've spoken to seem to prefer the Koujien as a more authoritative J->J dictionary than the Daijirin, and for that the Casio EX-Word might be better. I've also heard good things about the Sharp Papyrus models, though I don't know much about them.

For anyone who came to Japan after learning the language, about what level of language understanding is sufficient to get by? I mean for reading signs, texts, etc.?

For "sufficient" in order to not get yourself horribly lost and be able to find places to eat and the like, you want to at least be able to read kana and know at least some kanji. To really be able to take advantage of your Japanese literacy in terms of reading maps, finding neat places to eat, and traveling the unbeaten path, the more the better. I've got most of the Joyo kanji (and a bunch of random characters that aren't) under my belt, and it's great, but I know there are still things that I miss out on sometimes. Learning a language is a lifelong process, really, so regardless of what you've got when you go over, always keep in mind that there's room for improvement.

[Mr. Evil]

Thanks, both of you.

I'd say I have a pretty good grasp on about half the Joyo list in terms of kanji. It's just that a lot of times I'll read a compound and recognize only some of the kanji in it.

I think my vocabulary is actually pretty decent in terms of just knowing words, but knowing which kanji and compounds make up the words is usually a problem.

I'm not going until next year, so I'll probably have plenty of time to brush up on my kanji knowledge by then.

[SaiyaJedi]

Thanks, both of you.

I'd say I have a pretty good grasp on about half the Joyo list in terms of kanji. It's just that a lot of times I'll read a compound and recognize only some of the kanji in it.

I think my vocabulary is actually pretty decent in terms of just knowing words, but knowing which kanji and compounds make up the words is usually a problem.

I'm not going until next year, so I'll probably have plenty of time to brush up on my kanji knowledge by then.

Good luck.

I'm trying to master the remainder of the Joyo kanji before I take level 1 of the JLPT this year, and I'm quickly discovering why I never learnt them: there's some really bizarre stuff that I can't imagine anyone needing for "everyday use". In fact, I kind of suspect that the list was compiled by an unholy alliance of doctors, sake brewers, steelworkers, and farmers. Why else would it have such characters as "bone marrow" (髄), two kanji for "starve" (飢 and 餓), a counter for ships (隻), casting metal (鋳), pig iron (銑), fermentation (醸), yeast (酵), tilling the soil (耕) and others? There's plenty of stuff not on the list that people use all the time, so why these are here at all is simply baffling.

(To be fair, I suppose I should note that these might have been more important to everyday Japanese life 60-odd years ago when the list was originally compiled, and that most of the obvious choices that didn't somehow make the cut were later snuck into the list of kanji for names so that they can still be used normally. It's still downright odd, though.)

[DartG]

Question that I don't really absolutely need to do after I know the answer. But is there a way to pick up on some slang, other than actually going to Japan? Because my friend on Skype(where I usually help him with English while he helps me with my Japanese) keeps telling me I'm way to "proper". According to him I'm way to nice and tense on how I speak, so I should learn some slang. Is there a good book I should get? I don't just want to get some random ass book that ends up teaching me something that'll end up making myself look stupid.

I know that the only way to pick up on new things not taught in school is to actually go to Japan, but I can't see myself going to Japan within the next 5 years.

[SaiyaJedi]

Question that I don't really absolutely need to do after I know the answer. But is there a way to pick up on some slang, other than actually going to Japan? Because my friend on Skype(where I usually help him with English while he helps me with my Japanese) keeps telling me I'm way to "proper". According to him I'm way to nice and tense on how I speak, so I should learn some slang. Is there a good book I should get? I don't just want to get some random ass book that ends up teaching me something that'll end up making myself look stupid.

The thing about slang is that it changes with the times, and by the time a book comes out it's already passé. The best things I can recommend for you are to a) master informal, casual speech minus the slang, and b) watch a lot of current Japanese TV. The first will help you sound more "relaxed" and natural as a speaker, and the second will help you hear the kind of slang that's being used by young people right now in Japan. Other than that... good luck.

[Whistles the Wind]

I'd like to get some advice on programs that help you learn Japanese. It's been close to four years since I've taken a Japanese language course, and although I've been periodically reading manga in Japanese to help myself remember the basics, my knowledge of sentence structure and such beginning to slip.

One of my college textbooks, Nakama (how appropriate for a OP fan), is hanging around somewhere in my room, and I've considered looking for it and cracking it open to refresh myself. However, I've also seen commercials for (and have tried the demo for) the Rosetta Stone computer program and considered investing in that.

Has anyone tried the full Rosetta Stone product, and if so, is it any good? Or would I be better off with the textbook, a kanji dictionary and lots of patience? Thanks!

[Greg]

The thing about slang is that it changes with the times, and by the time a book comes out it's already pass&#233;.

QFT .

[Meowch]

SaiyaJedi, thanks so much for the info about the electronic dictionary! It's still very much relevant. I haven't bought one yet due to money issues.

I have a question about pitch accent in Japanese. I've just recently realized that I only know how to pronounce words because I've heard them before. Kind of sad that this never registered in my brain until now. But anyway, I've been more conscious about it and consequently looked into pitch accent. One of my Japanese dictionaries (Harper Collins Shubun Pocket English-Japanese Dictionary) has accent marks on the words to indicate a rising, falling, or flat inflection. However, I can't find any online dictionaries that give me this information. I've found one that only indicates where the rising inflection on the word is...so is that actually the only important part to know? Is my dictionary overdoing it?

If I'm going to learn more words I'd rather just learn them right the first time, but it's difficult when I can't find every word in my dictionary. So I thought an online one would be best. Does anyone know of any site like this, or maybe you might have some information about pitch accents in general?

[Master O]

I have a question about pitch accent in Japanese. I've just recently realized that I only know how to pronounce words because I've heard them before. Kind of sad that this never registered in my brain until now. But anyway, I've been more conscious about it and consequently looked into pitch accent. One of my Japanese dictionaries (Harper Collins Shubun Pocket English-Japanese Dictionary) has accent marks on the words to indicate a rising, falling, or flat inflection.

Pitch accent? Do you mean tone? Never knew Japanese had tones (like all dialects of Chinese)!

[Meowch]

No, I think pitch accents and tones are a little different. NationMaster Encyclopedia explains it well:

Pitch accent is a kind of accent system employed in many languages around the world. In a pitch-accented language, there is one accented syllable or mora in a word, the position of which determines the tonal pattern of the whole word.

This is unlike the situation in tone languages, where the tone of each syllable can be independent of the other syllables in the word. For example, comparing two-syllable words like [aba] in a pitch-accented language and in a tonal language, both of which only distinguish low tone from high, the tonal language has four possible patterns: low-low [àbà], high-high [ábá], high-low [ábà], low-high [àbá]. The pitch-accent language, on the other hand, only has two possibilities: accented on the first syllable, [ába], or on the second, [abá].

But this confuses me, too. Shouldn't there be a third way to pronounce "aba," that being with no accent at all? Then again, I've read that unaccented words are low-high. But if that's the case, where does this flat inflection that my dictionary talks about come in?

[DartG]

Another bump.

Pretty much stopped learning it, and forgot a good chunk of what I started to learn in the first place. Happens to a lot of people. Hell, there was a point where I had 2 years worth of French learned, but just due to the lack of using it, I forgot it.

My "equipment" being my ds, with a bunch of games to practice Kanji with, were on my R4 card when my bookbag got stolen, so I've pretty got nothing but a computer, and a headset to learn with.

Now, I understand the best way to learn is to actually learn, by communicating with natives, etc. The class I was going to take is closed for registrations, and I know it would of taught the same thing I can just learn online. But the point of taking classes, is that you have the teacher there whenever you need help. I also just got done downloading a whopping 34gigs worth of instructional videos, pictures, etc of the written language to work off of.

I stumbled upon LiveMocha, which basically has people around the world helping each other with languages.

Long story short for those who don't want to read it all. Is there anyone out there who uses LiveMocha? Or Skype, any other chatting software, to help me learn at a better pace? Maybe once or twice a week? Doesn't even have to be verbal.

I've pretty much forgot all of the basic sentence structure; Subject, object, verb, etc